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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: There was of course a violent tabloid reaction this week after the High Court’s decision to give parliament a vote over when Article 50 is evoked, calling the judges in some papers ‘enemies of the people’.  Well Theresa May says she will appeal against the decision in the Supreme Court but is the rhetoric around the whole legal process getting out of hand?  Well let’s talk now to Hilary Benn, Chair of Parliament’s Exiting the EU Select Committee, a very good morning to you, Mr Benn.  If it goes to the Supreme Court and it is upheld there, that decision, do you fear that the reaction might get worse?

HILARY BENN: I think it’s really important that we’re all clear about what the court judgement actually meant.  As you’ve rightly said, it was an important decision but it was simply a decision about who presses the Article 50 button, who formally starts the process of Britain leaving the European Union and the court has ruled it should be parliament rather than the government using the Royal Prerogative power.  We have the appeal, we still have to await the outcome of that, but it was not a decision about whether we are leaving the European Union because we will be leaving.  Now I campaigned very hard for Remain but we are democrats and we have to accept the outcome of the referendum and the task now is to try and get the best possible deal for Britain.

DM: Okay let’s fast forward then and assume it is upheld at the Supreme Court, your committee then has a huge say, does it not, in how parliament will approach discussions about what the red lines, what the demands are when Article 50 is triggered.

HILARY BENN: Well indeed the committee has got an important task.  I mean we haven’t yet of course had a chance to consider the Article 50 judgement but when we met on Wednesday we agreed our inquiry, we’re going to look into what should be the UK’s negotiating objectives, what kind of future economic and political relationship we should seek with the European Union after we have left, whether there is a case or not for transitional arrangements because when you think about it, Dermot, if Article 50 is triggered at the end of March as the government says it wants, we have of course the French and the German elections next year so it’s possible to argue that serious negotiations won’t be able to begin probably until the autumn, after the German elections are out of the way and that could leave us with just over a year and a half in which to sort out first of all the divorce settlement, because that’s the formal bit of the Article 50 process, but secondly reaching agreement, trying to reach agreement on what our future trading and market access arrangements with the 27 member states are going to be.  So we’ll also be looking at the government’s capacity to handle this negotiation because it’s going to be an extremely complex task, as you know.

DM: And clarify for us, Mr Benn, if you could, your party, the Labour party’s position on the actual triggering of Article 50.  If we understand what your leader, what Mr Corbyn has been saying this morning in the Sunday Mirror newspaper, it is a red line that access to the single market is maintained and if that is not one of the demands then you will try to make sure that Article 50 is not triggered.

HILARY BENN: Well Jeremy has also said, and I think it is the view of the vast majority of Labour MPs, that we respect the outcome of the referendum and the only way in which you can start the process of leaving is to trigger Article 50 but what Jeremy has set out, access to the single market, protecting the workers’ rights that we’ve had from the European Union, things like health and safety, working time, paid holiday, rights for part time and agency workers, ensuring that consumer protection, environmental laws that are so important for our country, continue to apply and making sure that capital investment that would have been coming that won’t now arrive because we’re leaving the European Union, think of investment in the regions, some work on science and universities – all of those are going to be maintained and that should be part of the negotiating objectives of the government.  Now when you look at that list they are list they’re all really, really sensible things.  What I cannot conceive of is circumstances in which for the next five months the government is going to remain silent about what its negotiating objectives are up until the moment when the Article 50 is invoked because I don’t see how the people in this country, nor indeed parliament, would be able to accept that.  It is perfectly reasonable for us to say to the government, look what is the plan?  Because there’s a lot of uncertainty, a lot of questions that people want answered, Dermot.  I’ll give you a very good example of how greater certainty helps, when Nissan announced recently that it wasn’t going to invest any more money in its plan in Britain without assurances about what the future may hold, quite rightly the government gave commitments about what it was going to seek in those negotiations.  That unlocked Nissan’s decision to build two new models in its plant in Washington in the north-east so for motor vehicle manufacturing in Britain, we now know what the government’s objectives are.

DM: Okay.

HILARY BENN: It is therefore perfectly reasonable for other industries to say, well what are your objectives for us and for the service sector which accounts for 80% of our economy, a million people work in financial services.  

DM: Okay, we got the list Mr Benn of the demands – access to the single market, protection of workers’ rights etc, but what happens if they are not part of the government’s negotiating position?  What actions will the Labour party take?  Mr Corbyn seems to be saying he would try to block Article 50 being triggered.

HILARY BENN: Well he’s also said that we will uphold the result of the referendum and I think that’s very important because I don't think any of us can get into a position where a majority of people having voted to leave the European Union and I very much regret that, the Labour party as you known campaigned very hard for remain – we have to respect that decision.  What I’m saying to you, Dermot, I don’t see how it’s going to possibly get to that point because it’s impossible to envisage circumstances in which for the next five months the government is not going to set out for parliament what its negotiating plan and objectives are.  I think it would be unacceptable to parliament and indeed to the people, we can’t have five months of silence as the government prepares to go into the single most important negotiation the country has faced for decades.  It isn’t going to happen.

DM: Okay, Hilary Benn, good to talk to you, thank you very much indeed.

HILARY BENN: Thank you.