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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, the face of the Labour party as you well know by now is a very different one.  It’s just a week since Jeremy Corbyn won the race to become the party’s leader, bringing with him an almost entirely new Shadow Cabinet.  His is the name on the front pages today, not least his plans to renationalise the railways.  Well Kerry McCarthy is the new Shadow Environment Secretary and she joins me now from Bristol.  A very good morning to you and let’s go straight in with this plan to renationalise the railways, I see it is going to be as franchises come up for grabs, do you think that’s the right way about it or would you like it to be quicker than that?    

KERRY MCCARTHY: I think if you look at the costing of it, the sensible way to do it would be as and when the franchises come up for grabs.  We saw that the East Coast Mainline was in public ownership for quite a few years and people were very happy with the service and the fact that the government had this ideological view that it could only be run by the private sector I think was shown to be completely wrong so yes, although we want to see massive improvement on our railways, we want to see them dealing with the fact that it is over-priced and doesn’t have the capacity to cope with the passenger numbers, it has to be a gradual approach because of paying for it.   

DM: Indeed and what other industries do you think the gradual approach could be applied to?  

KERRY MCCARTHY: Well I think the railway system is different because the fragmentation that came with privatisation has caused real problems and it is clear that there is real unhappiness with the railways.  I don't think there is a great public clamour for renationalisation of any of the other industries, certainly with the energy companies I think Labour’s approach should be we need to break the stranglehold that the Big Six have got but I’m very keen to see the development of community energy companies, that is something we’re developing in Bristol.  So rather than it be the state comes in and intervenes, it is very much about local ownership and I think that’s a really exciting thing that we ought to be developing.  

DM: It’s interesting that, and I am just thinking about the way the Shadow Cabinet is going to operate because we in the media, and the public of course as well, have got so many questions about so many policy issues.  To be frank you haven’t got them all sorted out yet and no one would expect that but is that the way it’s going to work, is that the way under Jeremy Corbyn that you can all have your own opinions because on nationalisation there are some, there are quite a few within the Shadow Cabinet who disagree with you and say no, we could do it with the energy companies and indeed the banks.  

KERRY MCCARTHY: Well I’m not aware that there is anyone actually calling for that at the moment but as you say, it is a week into the new leadership, Jeremy has made very clear that he wants there to be a very wide debate within the party, he wants to involve the membership much more and outside groups much more, we’ve got a conference next week so I think it is quite refreshing that we all push round ideas and have a genuine discussion but we can’t expect to reach conclusions immediately, that wouldn’t be the sensible way to do it.   

DM: And you are of course one of the majority of women within that Shadow Cabinet but what do you make of this, is it just a fuss about the most senior positions? You for instance, could you not have been a Shadow Foreign Secretary or a Shadow Home Secretary?

KERRY MCCARTHY: I actually really, if I’d been asked which portfolio I wanted I would have wanted to do the environment job because it is something I am absolutely passionate about, about how we can make our food and farming system more sustainable, how we can protect our natural environment, looking much more at biodiversity and conservation so this is the job I would have wanted and I certainly wasn’t angling for anything different.  I think the problem was that a few jobs were announced that went to men, if the Shadow Cabinet had been announced in the round people would have realised that really important jobs like health and education and business had gone to women, it was just a bit unfortunate the fact that the first few jobs that were announced had gone to men.

DM: Of course they’re important, of course we understand that but so is dealing with the billions and billions of pounds in the UK Exchequer, defending our shores, dealing with law and order.  Were there no women you think within your party who were capable of doing that?

KERRY MCCARTHY: Well when you say defending our shores, the Shadow Secretary of State for Defence is now a woman as well and I think that’s the first time that a woman has held that job so there are women in senior positions and also in the junior ranks within each team there will be quite a lot of women represented as well so I think he has got a very balanced Shadow Cabinet in terms of diversity and that’s important.  

DM: All right, what about your own position?  You are much quoted now, obviously dealing a lot with the agricultural sector, you are a vegan.  Just explain how you operate?

KERRY MCCARTHY: Do you mean what do I eat?  

DM: Yes, what is veganism?  

KERRY MCCARTHY: It’s just like being a vegetarian but you don’t have dairy or eggs either, that’s the simple version.    

DM: And is it true also that you carry that out to animal products, you won’t wear wool, leather shoes, things like that?    

KERRY MCCARTHY: I don’t wear leather. I think this dress is actually partly wool so … Some vegans are very hard line about it but it’s difficult when you … I think what a lot of us do is just try to do the best that we can so I don’t eat dairy products, I don’t eat eggs, that’s the most defining thing I would say.  A lot of vegetarians obviously would avoid wearing leather as well.  

DM: Okay and that doesn’t disqualify you from dealing with and helping those that do produce them but there are those within the sector that say this veganism might make you a bit biased against them.  

KERRY MCCARTHY: Well some people have said, obviously one of the issues the farmers are very concerned about is bovine TB and the badger cull.  It has been settled Labour policy for quite a number of years now and that wasn’t established by a vegan, that we don’t think that the badger cull is the way to deal with bovine TB, we think it’s ineffective, a huge waste of public money, it about £7000 per badger to shoot a badger during last year’s pilots and as well as thinking the way it was carried out was inhumane, I haven’t reached my view on the badger cull because I’m a vegan, I’ve reached my view on it because of the scientific evidence and the way the pilot cull was operated. The thing I would say actually, being a vegan, if anything that means that I care about the welfare of the cows more than some people would.  I don’t want to see cows suffering from bovine TB, it’s a horrible disease but I want to deal with it by vaccination both of badgers and cattle and moving forward with things like the DIVA test that is being developed in Europe.  I am certainly not blasé about what farmers are going through.  

DM: It’s a very good point you make about being perhaps even more concerned about the welfare of the animals but if you are concerned about that and the conditions in which they’re reared and slaughtered and you want to improve those conditions, ultimately that could put up costs and does that mean higher prices at the supermarkets?

KERRY MCCARTHY: I think there I a real job of work to be done in looking at the relationship between the farming industry and the supermarkets.  We’ve got the grocery code adjudicator in place now which tries to look at some of the practices that are in place where really the farmers were over a barrel in terms of what the supermarkets could demand from them and that is up for review so I certainly want to look at that.  The question of the price of milk obviously is a real burning issue for dairy farmers at the moment but I think that needs to be discussed obviously along the supply chain and particularly bringing the supermarkets into the fold.  Other things like the form of the Common Agricultural Policy, I very much want to work with farmers on that too.

DM: Okay, Shadow Environment Secretary, great talking to you, thank you very much indeed, Kerry McCarthy there, live from Bristol.