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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, tomorrow marks 35 years no less since the Limehouse Declaration.  That paved the way for the creation of the Social Democratic Party, the SDP, the so-called Gang of Four who broke away from Labour partly in protest at the party’s shift to the left so could history maybe repeat itself?  I’m joined now by the former Foreign Secretary and of course leader of the SDP, Lord Owen, he joins me from Wiltshire.  A very good morning to you, Lord Owen, do you think there could be people in the Labour party right now as you were 35 years ago and more, thinking that now could be the time – different circumstances of course but that now could be the time for a new party of the centre?  

SIR DAVID OWEN:  Well I hope not because it’s far too early.  We didn’t break away for two years and we fought very hard to change the policies that Michael Foot was putting forward.  We didn’t make any impact on it at all, they went into what’s been called the longest suicide note in history, the ’83 manifesto in which Labour was really massively defeated and I don’t think at the moment you could say that Labour was in a position of fixed.  I think Corbyn is showing some signs of compromising and I welcome that, he has shown that both on the European Union and I think, although I’m not sure about this, on NATO.  So he is entitled having won an election by a surprising amount to ask compromises on the other side and I’m not sure whether they are ready to do so.  One obvious issue is Trident and the whole of that super-sophisticated ballistic missile system, I’ve been against that ever since I was Foreign Secretary, since 1977.  I don’t think I’m a raring leftie or somebody who is a softie on defence and I think they would be very unwise to take a stance on a missile system like Trident.  I think they would be perfectly fair to ask him to look at a genuine minimum deterrent and to look at how you have a deterrent that you hold in reserve and don’t spend anywhere near as much money on because our read need is to spend on our conventional defence. There are other policies, I welcome Corbyn’s instincts on the National Health Service and I hope he, unlike Labour for the last few years, realises – and I know he does – how bad the situation is over the English National Health Service and I think we should go back, I think we should go quite decisively away from this marketised health service that we’re having and I welcome this and I don’t consider myself on the left.  I’d been saying these things inside the SDP – the SNP was not in favour of Trident, the SDP were in favour of Aneurin Bevan’s National Health Service and the SDP were in favour of a much more fairer and just society so I think it’s still up for grabs in the Labour party, I wouldn’t split.  

DM: Okay but there are others making calculations, not just even if they agree with the new politics, the inclusive nature of discussions but who say quite frankly Jeremy Corbyn is not electable.  

SIR DAVID OWEN: Well firstly that’s neither your job nor my job, you’ve got one vote and I’ve got one vote.  I think it’s a little premature four and half years, five years away from an election effectively to start judging that.  Labour has inner reserves, we showed that.  Breaking the first past the post voting system is very, very difficult to do and we had terrific poll ratings at various times in the SDP’s history and we did have a profound influence on the Labour party, actually on politics as a whole. Look at the number of women now in politics, the SDP were the first party to really welcome women and give them a serious position.  Look at when you look at the whole way in which we debate constitutional questions, devolution and issues like that – I think there is a long way to go on that, I do think we should have a UK that can make Scottish people feel absolutely part of a United Kingdom and the same for Welsh, I’m Welsh of course but also those from Northern Ireland and I think that we need to reform the House of Lords so that it is a properly elected chamber but one which represents the four nations of the United Kingdom and I personally think that’s a big agenda item because Labour has got to form an accommodation at the next election almost certainly with the SNP.

DM: Just let me ask you about the UK within the European Union, I know you’re a keen observer of the renegotiations that the Prime Minister is going through at the moment.  I suppose do you believe he is asking for the right things?  

SIR DAVID OWEN:  Not really.  I think he’s rushing and I can’t understand it.  We don’t have to have this election until November, even December 2017.  He set that date, why is he rushing this?  I am very suspicious of these negotiations, we are told we can’t have treaty change, why not?  The EU is in chaos at the moment on every score – the eurozone is a complete mess but it damages us, it’s very important they deal with the eurozone, they are not dealing with the eurozone.  Immigration, it would be hard to see a greater mess.  I think they must deal with that, they may need treaty amendments in both those areas so accepting now there can’t be treaty amendments when you see the problems they are facing up to seems to me to be superficial, unrealistic and quite damaging to British interests so if I was him I’d take it easy.  I was in Berlin only ten days ago and there was no readiness it seems to me to work through the issues of Europe that are in Britain’s interests and if we can get those righted, if we can get those corrected over the next year and a half, well let’s see.  Why is it? Osborne is afraid of the British economy, is he worried about having a referendum?  I don't think the economy is that sound.  There is a strange panic it seems to me between Osborne and Cameron who are pushing this and I don’t find much understanding in Europe why we are pushing our interests when what they want to do is talk about the real problems – the eurozone and immigration.  

DM: Lord Owen, it is always fascinating talking to you, thank you very much indeed for your input there, David Owen, Lord Owen there.