ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well now, if Labour don’t secure a majority at the election they will need the support of another party in order to form a government, as we’ve just been discussing perhaps the SNP, lots of speculation about whether Ed Miliband would do a deal with them but a more likely coalition, perhaps a more natural fit has been largely ignored and that’s between Labour and the Liberal Democrats of course.  Negotiations between the two sides in 2010 failed to deliver a coalition but could this time be different and are negotiations already going on behind closed doors?  As if they’d tell us.  I’m joined now by Paddy Ashdown, the former leader of the Liberal Democrats and is Chair of the party’s election campaign, a very good morning to you Paddy.  I want to pause that for a moment because I want to talk, with your international experience, the crisis, the tragedy that is taking place on the Mediterranean with hundreds of people, thousands of people drowning in their attempts to get across to southern Europe, leaving Libya, leaving other ports as well in these really unseaworthy vessels and drowning at sea.  

PADDY ASHDOWN: Dermot, it is appalling and I remember when the announcement came that the Italian operation to save these people Mare Nostrum was withdrawn, this would be the consequence and I said it would turn out to be a policy that would cause untold deaths and was a policy that was by any standards, shameful.  Those are the words I used in the House of Commons I think in October/November.  I do not understand why the policy, which by the way is to discourage North African migrants from coming to Britain by drowning many of them, cannot be replaced by a much more sensible policy which is use our influence to create peace, resolve conflict in their home countries and help them recover but above all, to attack in those North African ports – Egypt, Tunisia, Libya – the people traffickers.  Why do we not have a policy to attack the people traffickers rather than drowning the refugees?

DM: What do you mean attack them?  

PADDY ASHDOWN: We can support those law and order systems in those countries to arrest these.  Only one has ever been arrested so why are we not supporting those countries to really go after the people who ….

DM: But it wouldn’t take away the desire, the desire to get to southern Europe.  The people traffickers are exploiting that, the people come in their desperation to get out of the situation they’re in but they may well then get themselves some flimsy vessels and set off to sea on their own.  

PADDY ASHDOWN: Then you need to intercept them, intercept these boats and destroy them in ports which is exactly what we’ve done before but look, it’s a double strand policy.  One is to help them to recover in their countries and create countries in which they can continue to stay …

DM: Do you think the UK could do more about the people who have made it across alive?  A thousand people a day, the Italians say, the Italians alone say are arriving on their shores, should we take some of them?   

PADDY ASHDOWN: Unquestionably if we have a policy that results in this appalling and shameful loss of life, we have to play our part in resolving the consequences that are created by that, of course that’s the case but there is a better policy to be followed, it’s a policy that we’ve followed before and in a word it is far more sensible to attack the people traffickers, to destroy their boats and to recreate peace in the countries they are coming from than it is to have a policy which discourages refugees from coming to Europe by drowning them in their hundreds.  

DM: That’s a matter of life and death, it seems a bit trivial doesn’t it to talk about our own general election but discuss it we must.  The Lib Dems, you heard me discussing with our political editor there, what do you think about the Scottish National Party and we heard it from Alex Salmond as well yesterday, saying it more or less now would imagine that its MPs, however many MPs it gets, would feel free to vote on more or less anything, any legislation going through the House of Commons if they deem it to have even a secondary or tertiary effect on Scottish affairs.  

PADDY ASHDOWN: Yes, I think there is very clear evidence of what they are doing here, it’s coming south not to make Westminster work but to wreck its operations so that we get tired and create the circumstances, frustrated with the Scots and create the circumstances for them to have another referendum, that’s what’s behind this.  

DM: So would you like to see your party rule out any kind of deal with them in a rainbow coalition, say it’s Labour, Lib Dems and the SNP?

PADDY ASHDOWN: We have, we’ve done that, we’ve made it absolutely clear that we will do no deals with the SNP who want to break up Britain and no deals with UKIP who want to get Britain out of Europe, it would be very, very bad for our country and I don’t understand why Labour has not been so clear.  But let me just draw your attention to one thing if I may, can I just remind you that not much more than an hour ago Mr Cameron was asked five times, five times, on the BBC show, the Marr Show, to reject the possibility of a coalition with UKIP and he refused.  Now last week we identified that there was a fifth column of right wing Tory MPs within the Conservative party who want a deal with Mr Farage, who want a deal with UKIP and we call them Blukip.   Well what Mr Cameron’s interview means is that Blukip is alive and kicking and it’s coming to a hospital or a school near you, armed with a knife to cut public services to the bone.  Mr Cameron rejects what he calls the coalition of chaos but this is a coalition of chaos that will wreck your individual lives because what they plan is £36 billion, £36 billion, of cuts to our public services.  Now decent Tories must be worried about that, that what you’re going to see is a coalition of Blukip with Mr Cameron, running Mr Cameron just as Nicola Sturgeon is going to run Mr Salmond, er Mr Miliband, in order to create the circumstances for Tory cuts that will wreck public services.  

DM: You have talked a lot about coalitions with other parties, what about the Lib Dems?  From what you are saying, would the Lib Dems more naturally like to rescue Ed Miliband from the SNP, if he’s got the numbers, you’ve got the numbers, let’s do business, let’s go into coalition?  

PADDY ASHDOWN: We’ve made it very clear, we will always work in the national interest and we will always work for stability so the first question is, to whom the British people give the mandate to govern, we will work with them in order to create a coalition in order to give this country the stability it needs to finish the job to which we have set our hand.  I make it very clear however that we would not do a coalition as indeed Nick has made it clear, we will not do a coalition with anybody who wants to wreck our economy by borrowing too much or to wreck our public services and our society by cutting too much.  

DM: So that rules out Labour and the SNP?

PADDY ASHDOWN: Well Labour want to borrow an extra £72 billion, the SNP want to borrow an extra £181 billion. Let me tell you what that is, that is a primary school every other day in Britain.  No, we will not do a coalition which will wreck our economy by too much borrowing, Mr Miliband’s plans do not have any date set for getting rid of the deficit so any conditions of a deal with Mr Miliband, as with Mr Cameron, would be one, they don’t wreck the economy and two, they don’t wreck society.

DM: Let me end on one very specific question about one of your former MPs standing at the moment, Danny Alexander is seen as having done great service for the party, has been a great success there in the Treasury.  Now he is fighting for his life in his seat, if he doesn’t make it would you like to see him still playing a role in government if you in a coalition?

PADDY ASHDOWN: Listen, Danny Alexander is extremely gifted, he is going to win his seat.  I have seen the figures and I can tell you that hands down but let me just say one thing however because it’s important …

DM: But would you like to see him in the House of Lords?  

PADDY ASHDOWN: I would like to see Danny in any position that could ensure he is making a contribution to British politics and the best place for him to do that is in the Commons having represented his seat and representing it after the next election too.

DM: All right, Paddy Ashdown, thank you very much, very good to see you.