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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, a question for you: could the Lib Dems,could their success in Richmond be the first of many election upsets for theConservative party?  Former Deputy PrimeMinister, Nick Clegg, has said that the 48% of the UK who voted for Remain feelairbrushed out of the equation and that Richmond represents the beginning of abacklash.  Mr Clegg joins me now fromcentral London, a very good morning to you Mr Clegg.  So is it a case of going back to yourconstituencies and preparing for government?

 NICK CLEGG: Well it is certainly going back to the constituencies and preparing forwinning again which is a nice feeling for a party that has been pretty batteredand bruised in recent years because of the decline in our fortunes,particularly in the general election last year. Of course it’s great not only that we are winning in Richmond but ofcourse that we pulled off that remarkable result, if not quite winning, inWitney and by the way in lots and lots of local by-elections up and down thecountry.  In my neck of the woods inSheffield just a few weeks ago we won a huge, there was a huge swing fromLabour to the Liberal Democrats in interestingly an area that voted for Brexit,so it’s in many different areas of the country that the Liberal Democrat fortunesappear, appear to be starting to turn a corner.

DM: Andso do you think it runs counter to a bit of an argument, a bit of a discussionwe’re having today about the disconnection, we all know about that in so manyplaces with politics and the right being the answer?  Perhaps we might see that in Austria, maybein Italy, maybe in France, do you still feel in the UK there is the centreground to go for?

 NICK CLEGG: Well I think interestingly what was revealed in Richmond, and I suspectmight even be confirmed in the by-election in Lincolnshire next week, is thatincreasingly Brexit is becoming the organising principle round which electionsare fought and around which parties have to decide how they line and on that ofcourse what it is intriguing is it’s the two parties with the clearest messagefor and against Europe, namely the Lib Dems and UKIP, who stand to benefit fromthat while the two mainstream establishment parties, Labour and theConservatives, are getting themselves into an ever greater pickle as they can’treally decide what they want and what they believe.  That’s the intriguing thing, is that whenpolitics increasingly moves from the old right/left distinction that many of usgrew up with – high tax/low tax, the state versus the market – it is now beingreplaced with a politics about do you believe in openness or closing ourcountry and on that the Liberal Democrats have a very unambiguous view, notuniversally popular but certainly very popular amongst certain parts of thepopulation, that we should remain an open and tolerant country.

 DM: Arethe clouds, the political clouds beginning to go into ferment here?  You talk about a realignment and we saw therea progressive alliance in Richmond with in particular the Greens and otherssupporting the Lib Dems there.  Now thequote I read to you originally you recognised from David Steel was from analliance back in 1981, the SDP Liberal Alliance.  Not the same but could we be seeing somethinglike that begin to start?

 NICK CLEGG: Well the interesting thing is that voters, people, not politicians butthe people just in the ballot box, are already voting by way of thosealliances.  Clearly for instance lots ofLabour voters in Richmond decided to vote for the Liberal Democrats rather thantheir own candidate, I mean they got fewer votes than they actually havemembers in Richmond so voters are relatively unfussy about the idea that youhave got to sometimes make choices in order to get the best of what you want ifnot exactly all of what you want and I think as the years progress, andparticularly if this government appears to be or continues to be as clueless asthey appear to be on Brexit, I think there will be a need for parties andvoters of different parties, non-Conservative parties, to kind of tacitly orotherwise work together in order to provide the scrutiny and challenge whichthe Conservative party needs given that certainly Jeremy Corbyn, left to hisown devices, is not really minded to play the role of a principal party leaderof opposition so I do think there is a scope for people to relinquish theirtraditional tribal loyalties in order to bring some balance to Britishpolitics.

 DM: SorryMr Clegg, I’m getting all excited, spell it out then: so the Lib Dems at ageneral election might not stand in seats where other progressives have abetter chance?

 NICK CLEGG: No, I am not actually talking about … nor would it be, not any longer,my decision to take but I’m not talking about standing candidates down,although as you say, that is becoming increasingly familiar to people.  It wasn’t just the Greens who stood down inRichmond, of course very significantly it was UKIP and the Conservatives whostood down for Zac Goldsmith, so it is not just on the centre left where thatappears to be happening more, it is also on the other side of the politicalequation.  But what I do think will be importantwill be of course to explain to voters, for instance if you are in aConservative Liberal Democrat constituency in the south west of the country andyou know that either the Liberal Democrats or the Conservatives are going towin, of course we will be saying to Green voters and Labour voters, look weunderstand that you are a Green or a Labour person at heart but surely it’sbetter to have a Liberal Democrat who believes in our future in Europe and soon, rather than this hard line Brexiteer who currently represents you.  I think you will see a lot more of that,which we saw in Richmond, you will see a lot more of that as Brexit continues toloom over the British political scene.

 DM: There’sanother man I was talking to very recently saying more or less the same thingas you, certainly about the centre ground and the view on Brexit, TonyBlair.  You could get together like somenoughties political tribute band.

 NICK CLEGG: I wouldn’t put it like that!  Butlisten, the interesting thing about this Brexit issue and the way it dividespeople is of course yes, you get unfamiliar foes but you also get unfamiliaralliances and of course whilst Tony Blair is from the Labour party and I’m fromthe Liberal Democrats, he and I disagree on different things, actually what I’veheard him say about the future of our country, about what is at stake for the futureof the United Kingdom, I agree with pretty much everything he has said and I’vecertainly agreed with him when he has been brave enough to say of course we shouldkeep an open mind.  What happened on 23rdJune is clearly the mandate that this government needs to follow but what if peoplechange their mind in a year’s time, what if they decide this isn’t such a good ideaand that after all, when they see what Brexit means in practice, it doesn’tlook as attractive as it sounded in theory. I think it’s quite right to say that of course as a country we should keepan open mind because that’s what we owe to our children and our grandchildrenso on that issue at least I actually agree entirely with what he’s been saying.

DM: I’msure he’s watching right now and saying I agree with Nick – oh someone elsesaid that!  Nick Clegg, thank you verymuch indeed.  Watch this space.