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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: At last week’s Conservative Party Conference the Prime Minister announced that Brexit will be happening in the next two years with Article 50 to be triggered by March of next year but there are suggestions that not all in her Cabinet or party indeed see eye to eye on the process, while some in the party warn against the risks of a so-called hard Brexit.  Well Nicky Morgan was the Education Secretary until June and she is now advocating a so-called softer Brexit and she joins me now, a very good morning to you.  So tell me about this, how many of your colleagues in the Conservative party take your view?

NICKY MORGAN: I think it is quite a sizeable number actually in the parliamentary party and in the party at large.  I’m not going to put a number on it because it is very much a moving feast at the moment, we have obviously had some clarification from the Prime Minister last weekend about the timing of the triggering of Article 50, this idea of having a great Repeal Bill but clearly the big issue is going to be the terms on which we leave the EU and the terms of our continual relationship with EU member states.

DM: Just let me ask you, I asked you about the number of those who think this way but the number of those who feel free to speak out?  It’s almost as if the remains have disappeared within the Conservative party.  We know that they were the majority, people like you, people like Anna Soubry are speaking out but many have headed to the hills – Amber Rudd, I mean she is now Home Secretary and bound by collective responsibility but she was a vocal remain supporter yet she came out with that speech.  Were you horrified at conference?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I was very surprised that Amber had put forward that proposal about the listing of foreign workers because that’s not the Amber Rudd that I know and that I worked alongside in the Cabinet and I think it’s one of those things, she was saying and others were saying it’s a consultation but the trouble with these sorts of policies is that they send out a message about the party, about  the way that we want to approach people coming to this country, bringing their talents, their skills here and I don't think that’s a message that we want to send out to the wider world.

DM: Would you endorse the word repugnant, used by Steve Hilton, former advisor to then Prime Minister David Cameron?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I probably would actually.  I think it’s a really inadvisable way to proceed.  There’s no doubt people do care in this country about the levels of immigration and I think that we’ve moved to a position where in 2005 when Michael Howard was in that election and he talked about immigration and that debate was shut down by the then Labour government but we appear to have now gone almost 180 degrees the other way I suppose which is actually now we are now saying we are going to shut the borders, we don’t want people to come here and I think that’s also not what we want to see as a country.  I think Steve Hilton has a point this morning, he writes about having an open country, about people coming here.  Look, I represent a constituency with a large international university and they would be at a huge disadvantage if they didn’t have academics coming here, if they didn’t have students coming here.  We saw the disturbing development on Friday of academics at the LSE being told unless you have a British passport we don’t want to have you advising the UK government and that also seems a strange development to me too.

DM: And another one, picking up from the conference, Jeremy Hunt, another remainer of course, coming out with the extraordinary idea that somehow the NHS will become, he terms, ‘self-sufficient’ in British staffing in ten years’ time.  Presumably that is not achievable, were you surprised he said something like that?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I wasn’t entirely surprised because there has been a debate around the Cabinet table about … and obviously training medical students is a huge investment for this country and I think we should ask ourselves why is it that so many having been trained then decide immediately to go overseas and so what can we do to incentivise people to stay here but again the message you can give is well actually we only want British doctors, we don’t want foreign expertise coming here.  It was very interesting listening to some interviews given by people working in the health service over the last couple of says saying actually our health service is stronger because we do have people from overseas and also our doctors go overseas again to build up their experience which they can then bring back which benefits patients here so I think all of those signals, it’s rather confusing when actually what we want to be focusing on is how do we give that message about being an open country that welcomes all talents to come here but we want to do the best thing, whether it’s for our public services, whether it’s for our businesses and other organisations and making sure that they have got access to the best talents possible.

DM: So you know this question’s coming then, what can you do, do you feel, to influence the course of events?  For instance, can you get some kind of parliamentary vote on the process perhaps further down the line and not just on this great Repeal Bill, do you think you can make common cause with people in other parties to do that?

NICKY MORGAN: Well there is no doubt that there are a lot of us in parliament who do feel that it would be extraordinary, given that the Brexit vote was about the sovereignty of parliament and of this country in terms of making our laws, that phrase of taking back control, whatever it means, for Parliament not to have a big say in the Brexit negotiations as they unfold, on the guiding principles, to be asking questions – I hope tomorrow for example that a member of the Cabinet, whether it’s David Davis or somebody else, will come to Parliament and make a statement, that’s what normally happens when Parliament hasn’t been sitting, when there’s been some big developments as there were over the party conference, the announcements, coming to Parliament to tell Parliament that this is the stage that we have got to.  Yes, I think there will be common cause between those of us who want there to be the right Brexit, the right mechanism for leaving the EU but the other thing is that the Conservative party manifesto on which we were elected only 17 months ago, has a very clear statement in it about we say yes to the single market.  It talks about how we will safeguard British interests in a single market and that is something that the government cannot ignore, the Conservative party, my Conservative colleagues, cannot ignore.  We stood on a manifesto saying that, as well as saying that we’d have a referendum, we would respect the result which we will, but actually we have to make sure that we do not throw away access to the single market just because that means talking about freedom of …

DM: So further down the line as a deal comes in to shape, you would like to see Parliament retaking sovereignty, Parliament having a decision?

NICKY MORGAN: Well that I think is what everybody seems to be saying, campaigners on the Leave side, the Prime Minister was talking about sovereignty of Parliament, Parliament making their own laws and having a say in this negotiation and I think a vote.  I think that we as Members of Parliament are very mindful, even those of us who are very pro-Remain, are very mindful of the vote on 23rd June, what people wanted, the majority, 17 million, have voted to leave the EU but there is 48%, 16 million, of whom I’ve had a lot of contact from in the last few days saying please make sure you make the case for the best possible deal.

DM: And have you had contact from the former Labour leader, Ed Miliband, we hear he is talking – he’s in the papers today – to Conservatives, would you like to speak to him?

NICKY MORGAN: No, I haven’t.  Look, I will speak to everyone because I think this is such a momentous issue for the United Kingdom, I think we can all agree on that whatever side of the debate that we’re on, this is a huge thing for the United Kingdom, it is going to affect our future for decades to come which is why we’ve got to get it right and I think people expect their Members of Parliament to be holding the government to account, to be asking those questions and isn’t it interesting that you’ve got people like Pat, you’ve got people whether it’s Ed Miliband or others, it’s not the Labour front bench who are asking those questions so it is incumbent on others of us to do that.

DM: You must be getting a lot of flak from some members of your party.

NICKY MORGAN: Actually, I’ll say no and then I’ll probably look at my Twitter timeline and look at my inbox after that but I think people understand that it’s incumbent on those of us, particularly those of us who have been in government and who understand how government works, to ask those constructive questions about do we have the right deal, what are the negotiating principles, where are we hoping to end up, what damage could we do to our economy, what damage can we avoid doing to our economy and that’s what we’ll be asking.

DM: Do you think, I mean there is a school of thought that says with Theresa May that this was positioning at the Conservative party conference, she after all was a remainer, maybe technically a remainer, but she had to then reassure the party that she was going to carry out Brexit and having reassured them, she now has room for manoeuvre.  There are going to be compromises inevitably in these very, very difficult negotiations, do you think that’s it, it’s political tactics?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I’m sure there’s an element of that.  In any party conference speech you give, you think about the audience that’s in front of you, the reassurances that people want to hear but I don't think anyone can doubt that what Theresa May has said from July onwards that she is determined to deliver Brexit …

DM: Were you surprised she took such a strong tack though?

NICKY MORGAN: Not particularly because I think at the start of a negotiation you want to set out your stall but I think other people clearly have been.  Look at the markets, look at what’s happened to the value of the pound in the last few days, I think there are people who have suddenly woken up to the fact that we are going to have a wholly different relationship with the EU in a matter of years and that is something that people are going to have to factor in to future business decisions.  But that is also the other thing, is the uncertainty that is out there.  I was out knocking on doors yesterday in my constituency where people were saying, well we don’t really know what happens next.  I was talking to some farmers on Friday, again all very uncertain for them; talking to food manufacturing business, again very uncertain for them, their prices are beginning to go up, the price they are paying for products so it is important that actually, and that’s why I was keen that the government did signal they were going to make progress with this and they are.

DM: Do you think you have got an ally in the Cabinet for that viewpoint in the Chancellor, in Philip Hammond?

NICKY MORGAN: Well I haven’t spoken to Philip but I know from my time as a Treasury Minister, the Treasury will have a very clear view on what they want to see in terms of negotiations, in terms of tactics, that doesn’t damage the British economy because at the end of the day that will benefit absolutely no one in this country.  The people the Prime Minister says rightly she wants to support, those who are just about managing, are going to be most damaged if our economy is damaged by Brexit because that then affects their jobs and livelihoods.

DM: Nicky Morgan, good to see you, thank you very much indeed.