ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNGHAN: Britain’s relationship with the European Union will dominate political debate over the next few years but what might it do to Scotland’s relationship with the rest of the United Kingdom.  Well Scotland’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, is going to Brussels this week to make a key speech about the EU and I’m glad to say the First Minister joins me now from Glasgow, a very good morning to you Ms Sturgeon.  So you want to make sure, and you are going to say it again presumably in Brussels, that Scotland doesn’t exit the EU against its will because of the upcoming EU referendum.

NICOLA STURGEON: Well I want to say two things.  Firstly I hope that the UK and Scotland as part of that, choose to stay in the European Union for the very simple reason that it is very important for our economy, for investment, for jobs.  For example there are some 300,000 jobs that are estimated in Scotland to be dependent on our exports to the European Union so I’ll make a very strong and a very positive case for our membership of the European Union.  Yes, the European Union needs reform but our interests in our view are best served by being in the European Union but secondly I will also make the case that given that the UK is a multi-national state, it would be wrong for the UK to exit the European Union unless every nation that is part of the United Kingdom had chosen to do so, so when the European Referendum Bill is put before the House of Commons, SNP MPs will seek to amend it to introduce what’s called in federal states, a double majority system so that the UK can only come out of the EU if England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland each voted for that.

DM: You said there and you’ve said it before, you agree that the European Union does need reform, specifically what?

NICOLA STURGEON: Well I would say a number of things to that. Firstly I think there are areas of policy where the European Union should not seek to interfere as much as it does, it should leave matters to the decisions and the judgment and the discretion of domestic governments.  Public health policy for example, I would cite the Scottish government some years ago introduced legislation for minimum pricing for alcohol because we’ve got a significant problem with alcohol misuse.  We’ve not yet been able to introduce that policy because it is currently before the European court.  Now in the current arrangements the European Court of course is absolutely entitled to adjudicate on that but I would say that is an area of policy that European Union shouldn’t seek to interfere in.  Similarly I think the European Union needs to be much more democratic, much more transparent than it is at the moment so there are a number of reforms that we would argue for but crucially I think that it’s right that we do that from within the European Union because exit or threatening to exit the European Union is damaging to our economy, to potential investment and to jobs and that is the case that I will make in Brussels this week and will continue to make as this debate develops over the next year or so.

DM: Okay but staying with those reforms, what about this key issue for Mr Cameron and many other people, about freedom of movement?  Do you see that as sacrosanct, that is one of the whole bases of the single market?

NICOLA STURGEON: I think freedom of movement is one of the underpinning principles of the single market and the European Union.  Now if there are to be reforms to that, restrictions for example as David Cameron is putting forward to the ability of immigrants from other parts of the European Union to claim benefits, then I think that has to be reform that is determined and decided on a collective basis, not on the basis of the UK threatening to walk away if it doesn’t get its own way. I suppose the other thing I would say in the context of that debate is that very often we miss some of the salient facts. European Union immigrants to the UK actually make a net contribution to our economy and there was research done not that long ago that over the last decade or so that immigrants from other parts of the European Union to the UK have contributed £20 billion overall to our economy so this idea that people who come to our country to seek to work, to make their home, to make a contribution are a drain on our resources is not necessarily borne out by the evidence. It is also the case of course that many British citizens go to live and work in other parts of the European Union, it’s not a one way street, so collective discussions about how and if reforms should be made there, yes that may well be appropriate but I think what is dangerous about the approach David Cameron is taking right now is that he is taking the UK perilously close to the exit door and I think that’s wrong and I want to make that case in Scotland and I hope others across the UK will make the case that yes, reforms are appropriate but we should argue for that within the European Union and not by threatening to leave.

DM: But of course if Mr Cameron gets what he wants, he and the rest of his cabinet presumably are going to be campaigning for a yes vote. Would you be quite happy to campaign shoulder to shoulder with the Conservative party?

NICOLA STURGEON: I’ve got no plans to share platforms with David Cameron or George Osborne or anybody else in the Conservative party.  I’ll make a case as leader of the SNP, as First Minister of Scotland, based on my belief that Scotland’s interest – and I would argue the UK’s interests – are best served by being within the European Union.  I hope we see many non-politicians come to the fore of this debate as well and make the positive case for Scotland and the UK remaining within the European Union, yes being perfectly open about the imperfections of the European Union, about the flaws and the deficiencies of the European Union as it currently is, but arguing the case for sensible reforms but also arguing the case that our interests, our economic interests are best served by being within.

DM: Now what about the issue of extra powers for Scotland?  We also know that you’re in the foothills of discussions with Mr Cameron about that.  What do you say to those who say in actual fact Nicola Sturgeon and the SNPs strategy is that whatever is on offer from Westminster, they are going to say it’s not enough for Scotland and this is the start of another road towards another independence referendum?

NICOLA STURGEON: Firstly I would say that is a wrong characterisation of our position. I made clear on many occasions during the recent general election campaign, I think I said it on your programme Dermot, that there will only be a second independence referendum if a majority of people in Scotland choose that option.  What we want to do is make sure that the promises that were made to Scotland during the last referendum by politicians like David Cameron are honoured and they are honoured in full.  Now last week we had the publication of the Scotland Bill that in my view doesn’t even go as far as to implement the recommendations of Lord Smith’s commission in full so if you take welfare for example, it seems to want to say that it gives the Scottish parliament greater powers over welfare but it retains a veto for the Westminster government so that the Scottish parliament in certain key areas would only be able to exercise those powers if UK ministers agreed and that’s not devolution, that’s power retained at Westminster.  So as that Bill goes through the House of Commons, the SNP MPs will very constructively seek to amend it firstly to make sure that the Smith Commission proposals are implemented in full and translated into legislation but also look to see where we can go beyond those proposals, to really empower the Scottish parliament with powers over the minimum wage, we have business taxes for example, employment law – the things that we need, that governments around the world take for granted in terms of getting the economy growing faster, creating more jobs and being more effective at tackling inequality.

DM: Okay, First Minister, thank you very much indeed.  Nicola Sturgeon there.