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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well now, maybe at the time of the last general election back in 2010 many people had never really heard of Nicola Sturgeon, she was hardly a household name but how things have changed.  The SNP leader and First Minister of Scotland has become the star of this election and looks set to hold considerable clout, her party, in the Commons after polling day but how will she use that power and recognition.  Well Nicola Sturgeon joins me now from Glasgow and a very good morning to you.  Now you may have seen, I have had senior representatives from Labour and the Conservatives on this programme refusing to countenance anything other than an outright majority, at least you’re not going to tell me that for the SNP but your party could, as I said, have considerable clout and you are aiming to form what you call a progressive alliance.  How formal would you like that to be or will it just have to be vote by vote?

NICOLA STURGEON:  Well I think it’s looking likely that it will be on a vote by vote basis and I actually think that’s the arrangement by which Scotland can wield the greatest influence and have the greatest clout.  What I think all of the polls show and what everybody across the country seems to accept is that neither David Cameron or Ed Miliband is going to have an outright majority after Thursday.  I can understand why they have to cling to that pretence in the campaign but on Friday morning they are going to have to respect how people vote.  Now I’ve made very clear that the SNP will not have any truck with the Conservatives and if there is an anti-Tory majority we would want to lock David Cameron out of Downing Street but then use our influence to make sure the Tories are replaced with something better and more progressive and I think that would be a very good position for Scotland to be in so that we can argue for and vote for an end to austerity and stronger protection for our public services, more investment in our economy to get young people into jobs.  

DM: Do you think Mr Miliband is missing a trick by so explicitly ruling out a coalition with the Scottish National party?

NICOLA STURGEON:  Well I think he has over the last 48 hours or so a problem to many traditional Labour voters.  I have spoken to a lot of traditional Labour voters in Scotland and I suspect the same is true of traditional Labour voters in other parts of the UK when he said on Thursday night or seemed to say that he would, if it came to it, rather see the Conservatives back in office and turn his back on the chance to be Prime Minister than work with the SNP and I think people would find that very, very hard to believe and hard to accept.  If there is an opportunity surely to get the Tories who have done so much damage to communities across the UK out of office and to replace that government with something more progressive, then surely Ed Miliband would want to seize that opportunity.  I know the SNP will.

DM: And if it were on offer, we know it’s not but if it were on offer and it would maximise the SNPs influence, would you like a coalition?  

NICOLA STURGEON:  Well I said way before Ed Miliband said this that a formal coalition between the SNP and Labour was highly unlikely.  You know the SNP are not going to Westminster with the objective of holding ministerial office, we go there to make a difference and to argue for policies that will make a difference to ordinary people across Scotland and I hope ordinary people across the UK as well but one thing is very clear, and I think it is something that Ed Miliband is failing to grasp, if he fails to win a majority on Thursday, if he wants to be in government he has to put together a majority somehow and if that’s not by way of a formal coalition or formal arrangement then that will have to be on a vote by vote basis because otherwise you cannot get your policies, your legislation, your business through the House of Commons.  Of course the SNP, as well as being a progressive party wanting to build progressive alliances, is also party that has a wealth of experience of minority government.  We were a minority government in Scotland between 2007 and 2011 so we know how to make minority government work, we know how to make it effective and stable and successful, we know how to get things done and we would look to play a very constructive and positive part in using a minority government situation to get good policies that will benefit people in Scotland but, as I say, I hope will benefit ordinary people across the UK.

DM: And just take us through again what parts of the Labour programme would have to change for SNP support.  We’ll come on to Trident in a moment but what about this pledge, we heard it again from Mr Miliband on Thursday night, to cut the deficit every year, would that have to go?  

NICOLA STURGEON:  Well Ed Miliband is saying that he wants further spending cuts in the next parliament, we take a different view.  We think the cuts are harming vulnerable people, they are pushing more people into poverty, they are undermining our public services like the NHS and they holding back growth in our economy as well, they are actually making it harder for people to get into jobs and paying taxes and getting the economy growing, so we’ve put forward a very responsible, fiscally responsible alternative to austerity.  We want to see spending modestly rise every year in the next parliament by half a percent above inflation, the deficit would still fall in every year as would the debt as a share of our national income but we are saying it would take two, possibly three years longer to completely eliminate the deficit.  That slower path of deficit reduction is in my view a price worth paying to free up additional investment in the National Health Service and in our economy, that’s the difference. There are many things that we agree with Ed on but the differences are …

DM: But just this issue of cutting this deficit every year, you don’t need to do that, you don’t want to see it?

NICOLA STURGEON:  Well our plan would see the deficit fall every year but it would allow us not to have further spending cuts.  Now Ed Miliband seems at pains, for reasons best known to himself, to talk about the further spending cuts that he wants to preside over.  Now my argument is we don’t need to do that.  The cuts that the Tories and the Liberals have presided over, over the past five years, have been very painful and they haven’t even met their own objective in order to get the economy growing again so we want an alternative to that and we would seek to use the clout of SNP MPs standing up for Scotland, making Scotland’s voice heard but also arguing for progressive alternatives to continued austerity so that’s one of the big influences that SNP MPs could have.  If we want Scotland’s voice to be heard and we want that voice to then argue for more progressive politics then vote SNP on Thursday as a way to do that.

DM: In those discussions with Labour could you envisage there being a provision for another referendum on independence if the Scottish people indicated at some stage during the course of this parliament?  Could you see some reference to that in an agreement?

NICOLA STURGEON:  I wouldn’t be seeking that because I have made very clear that this election is not about having another referendum and it’s not about independence.  I have said very clearly and I should say this is not a prediction but even if, and it’s a very big if and I’m not predicting it, even if the SNP was to win every seat in Scotland on Thursday we would not take that as a mandate for a further referendum.  There would only ever be a further referendum in Scotland if people vote for that proposition in a Scottish parliament election.  There’s no proposal for another referendum right now, this election is about giving Scotland a louder voice in Westminster, greater influence, greater clout, that’s what we’re asking people to vote for on Thursday.

DM: First Minister, thank you very much the First Minister of Scotland and Scottish National Party leader, Nicola Sturgeon there.