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DERMOT MURNAGHAN:  A truly pathetic deal, that’s the verdict on the Prime Minister’s EU negotiations from the UKIP leader Nigel Farage, as you might rather expect and he joins me now.  A very good morning to you Mr Farage, I want to start by asking you first off, are you going to debate Alex Salmond on this programme?  He threw down the gauntlet to me to debate you last week.  

NIGEL FARAGE:     I know he did.  Well the other week I was challenged by the First Minister of Wales, Carwyn Jones, to go down to Cardiff and debate with him which I did and I’m very keen to debate Nicola Sturgeon, she is the First Minister of Scotland.  

DM: Sorry, no, Alex Salmond it was.

NIGEL FARAGE:     Well Alex Salmond was a very, very big figure, he was the leader in the referendum campaign but he is not even leader of the SNP in Westminster so the deal is I’ll say yes to Alex Salmond and to Nicola Sturgeon, let’s have a couple on each side and let’s do a big Scottish debate.  

DM: But not just Alex Salmond on his own.  You both articulate the arguments very well, it would be very good for the audience to see it.  

DM: I would love to debate Nicola Sturgeon absolutely, she’s the one in the seat, she’s the one in this campaign making the big arguments in Scotland, I’d like to debate with her.

NIGEL FARAGE:     So you are turning down Alex Salmond, let’s just be clear about that?  

DM: I am asking Nicola Sturgeon whether she would like to do a debate.  Now if she turns me down I’ll consider very seriously with Alex Salmond.  

NIGEL FARAGE:     We’ll have one more go at it and let’s see Alex Salmond offering you the challenge there.  

ALEX SALMOND: I’ll be delighted to take on Mr Farage or any comer in the anti-European side.  I don't know if they have quite decided who they will be fielding yet, they seem to have spent a lot of time fighting with each other, that’s the sort of folk they are but yes, you debate all comers in a referendum campaign.  

DM: So not a head to head with him with Alex?

NIGEL FARAGE:     I didn’t know he was leading the SNP campaign, I thought Nicola Sturgeon was.  Anyway, there we are, I’m very happy to go to Edinburgh or Glasgow or Inverness or anywhere else …

DM: No, here.

NIGEL FARAGE: Oh no, we’ve got to do it in Scotland.  You can come to Scotland.

DM: Oh right, you’re on your own there.  You make an interesting point there about Alex Salmond, who is leading the campaign?  

NIGEL FARAGE: Hopefully no one individual, because if one individual leads it it will be a disaster.  If you read today’s newspapers and listen to today’s debate, you would think the only people eligible to vote in this referendum are Conservative voters.  It is balderdash.  80% of those eligible to vote in a general election did not vote Conservative, there are millions of non-voters out there that are interested in this issue and everyone has forgotten about the trade union movement, about Labour.  To win this referendum we need different messengers to reach different parts of the electorate.

DM: So you are quite happy, I mean they regard you as toxic, the Conservative party.

NIGEL FARAGE:  Of course.

DM: They don’t want to have anything to do with you.  

NIGEL FARAGE:     Oh I am beneath them, I am far too common to have anything to do with them, I mean I understand that.  Look, there are lots of people in the Conservative party that will share platforms with me and have done over the last few weeks and I think we’re going to see, I think we’re going to see an out campaign with lots and lots of different individuals representing the full rainbow spectrum of British politics and that’s exactly as it should be.  

DM: We saw that on Friday night, what did you discuss with George Galloway?  Did you share your views on Iran together?

NIGEL FARAGE: We didn’t go through Israel, we didn’t go through economic policy, in fact if we discussed almost anything in UKIPs manifesto last year we’d have had a very hard time.  

DM: Did you ask him to join the UKIPs Friends of Israel perhaps?

NIGEL FARAGE: Well quite.  He was very disobliging about me last year in quite personal terms but here’s the point, George Galloway and I disagree fundamentally but we agree on the single most important political question we will face in our lifetimes – mainly are we to get back our independence and our self-control.  And we talked about that.  

DM: But talking about the public meetings you are going to, do you think it cancels it out because you are Marmite politicians to different sides within the debate, do you think people are looking at you and George Galloway and thinking I don’t want to touch Nigel Farage with a bargepole but I will vote for George Galloway and the other way round?

NIGEL FARAGE:     And we had Bill Cash on the platform and we had Ruth Lee the economist on the platform and we had Kate Hoey the Labour MP on the platform and we had a dozen speakers on that platform representing a huge range of different political families and what we’ve done is to sign a pledge and the pledge is we cast aside all differences, all previous quarrels for the period of this referendum to put the national interest first.  

DM: And would you do it again?  When you see those photographs in the paper of him with his trilby on or whatever it is, beaming into his eyes there, would you do it again?  

NIGEL FARAGE:     With the best will in the world, I could try as hard as I like, I don't think I’ve got a great pull amongst the Muslim community in this country but George does, George actually speaks to that community.  He also speaks to a lot of people who at the moment are remain voters and as we saw in the Scottish referendum, he is a powerful debater.  He is a big figure on the left of British politics and he will do what he does and I will do what I do and I would encourage people to grow up, to get beyond tribalism, to get beyond the pettiness that poisons our politics most weeks of the year and to say if we believe in this country we must all work together.   

DM: And what’s your take on Boris Johnson, is he going to join in perhaps, join you on one of those platforms?  I’m just looking at a photograph there, he’s got some interesting hats to wear as well.  Do you think Boris Johnson is going to come over?  

NIGEL FARAGE:     Yes, I do actually.  

DM: Based on any information beyond instinct?

NIGEL FARAGE: I did just chat to his sister but she wasn’t giving anything away. Look, I think he will and hurrah is all I can say to that because what again I think a lot of the commentariat in Westminster don’t understand is there are literally only five or six people in this referendum whose campaigning, whose presence can sway the undecided and he is one of those half a dozen.  

DM: And if he comes in on that side, do you think it would destroy the Prime Minister if he wins?  

NIGEL FARAGE: I don’t care about that.  

DM: I know you don’t like the Prime Minister but …

NIGEL FARAGE: I’m not interested in political parties, I’m not interested in the Prime Minister, I’m interested in winning this referendum. Again, too much of this debate is about positioning, what happens afterwards.  Let’s just try and win the referendum, that’s all I care about.

DM: And it’s oft been said whatever the result, whichever way it falls, it’s the end of your party isn’t it?  It’s really a single issue party and if you get out then you’ve achieved it and if we’re in, we’re in for generations to come.  There’s no point in UKIP.  

NIGEL FARAGE:     I repeat the point, I want to win the referendum.  You can speculate all you like about what will happen in the next few years, the fact is that if we vote to leave we then need to make sure that the British government carries out the will of the people and I say that because the Danes voted against Maastricht and were forced to vote again.  Twice the Irish have voted against treaties and they were forced to vote again and the French and Dutch torpedoed the European constitution and yet it was introduced through the back door so actually UKIP will need to be very strong to make sure they carry out the will of the people.

DM: Just that view, you mentioned there the Irish and there is obviously special arrangements between the UK and Ireland and its citizens who live here being able to vote in general elections, they are going to be able to vote in this EU referendum.  They are having a general election of course in Ireland next week, I was over there recently and you have got the Taoiseach, the Prime Minister there, urging all Irish people in the UK to vote to remain.  

NIGEL FARAGE:     Yes, well he would do, I mean he is completely sold on the European project and …

DM: But do you think EU nationals should have the vote?

NIGEL FARAGE: Well Ireland’s different, Ireland is completely different.  Our history, our shared relationship, the fact that since 1921 we’ve had our own special deal.  It’s not comparable to Bulgaria or Hungary or anywhere else, it just isn’t comparable but look, the Irish political class are completely sold out on the European project, they signed up to the euro which has been a disaster for them and yet the Irish people … I’ll tell you what, they are as eurosceptic as we are.  
DM: And just one other thing on eligibility to vote, I read the other day, maybe you saw it as well, that British Embassies within the European Union, Italy, France were mentioned, are encouraging people, ex-pats, British ex-pats to sign up to vote.  Do you read something more into that?

NIGEL FARAGE: Well the Foreign Office isn’t neutral, the Foreign Office has been campaigning for the European Union now for decades. I have to work with them occasionally in Brussels, there is no attempt at civil service neutrality and they will do what they can to help their friend the Prime Minister.

DM: Okay, Nigel Farage, UKIP leader, thank you very much indeed.