ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: The Prime Minister is on the offensive this morning with the warning that state pensions, NHS spending and even free bus passes could be put at risk if Britain votes to leave the European Union.  Mr Cameron says the strain Brexit would put on the economy would threaten the so-called triple lock guarantee for pensioner payments and the ring fenced health funding.  Well I am joined now by Priti Patel, the Employment Minister and Vote Leave campaigner and a very good morning to you.  So more Project Fear or a genuine warning about some of the dangers lurking?  

PRITI PATEL: Well look, I think this is still very much part of the Remain campaign’s approach and almost now not just the fear aspect but terrifying people with projections again in terms of the list that you’ve just reeled off.  

DM: But people are asking what does Leave look like, what does Remain look like.  

PRITI PATEL: Well we’ve been very clear in terms of Leave, the opportunities that would be created for our economy – more trading opportunities, more economic growth, more job security, control of our borders, also more importantly as well which really speaks to some of the points the Prime Minister is making today, the fact that we would take back control of the money that we currently give to the European Union and we would spend that money on our priorities including the NHS.  

DM: You seem to have spent it on an awful lot of areas though, it’s ten billion quid, it doesn’t cover all the areas that the Leave campaign have mentioned.  

PRITI PATEL: £10 billion is a substantial amount of money that currently we do not have any control over, that is British taxpayers money that we freely and willingly give over as part of our subscription to the European Union and I think that the British public would like to see that money not handed over to unelected bureaucrats and people that are not accountable to the British taxpayer but the British taxpayer would like to see that money spent on their priorities.  

DM: Well you know the Prime Minister’s and the Chancellor’s argument is that because the overall economy would take a dip that £10 billion would be dwarfed by a smaller economy therefore even if you spend the same proportion on things like the NHS and defence and so many other things, it’s a lot less money.  

PRITI PATEL: Well a couple of points to make.  First of all the forecasts have all been based on all the negative factors, they have not forecasted in for example the fact that our economy would grow if we had the ability to trade freely in a way in which the European Union prevents us from doing so right now, with new partnerships and trade agreements that would enable our economy to grow in a way in which it has not been growing so far.  But also not only that, we have to be, you know we need to be optimistic for the future of our country and I think all we’ve heard from the Remain side is the constant negativity, talking our country down and you know, it’s such a contrast right now …

DM: But because they are using experts, independent experts, experts you used to accept were independent like the IMF, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, you are now saying they got some predictions wrong so they are wrong about everything.  

PRITI PATEL: Well I would suggest actually that the IMF are not independent for a start, the IFS, in government we are constantly arguing with the IFS basically in terms of their numbers, their forecasts and things of that nature and yes, let’s be quite clear about this, the country, the British public don’t want to be lectured by organisations that quite frankly said 10, 15, 20 years ago that we should join the ERN, look what a success that was not when people lost their livelihoods, when we saw exactly how our economy was destroyed through our membership of the ERM, these are the same organisations that wanted us to join the euro, well look at what has happened to the eurozone across the European Union.  Of course they are the ones constantly trying to force us into a political relationship and more harmonisation and integration with the European Union.  We are saying that is not good for Britain, it is certainly not good for British jobs or the British public.

DM: But you’ve changed your mind about the European Union haven’t you?  In the past you voted quite consistently on elements for instance of enlargement, you used to think it wouldn’t be a bad thing if Turkey joined the European Union.  

PRITI PATEL: Well it is government policy for Turkey to …

DM: And you voted for it.  

PRITI PATEL: It is government policy for Turkey to join the European Union.  This referendum in my view has changed the dynamics, I think we should have …

DM: But you did used to think that it would be all right if Turkey eventually joined the European Union didn’t you?

PRITI PATEL: It is government policy but this referendum has effectively thrown up very legitimate concerns about Turkish membership of the European Union and we are paying …

DM: But you didn’t have those concerns when you voted for it.  

PRITI PATEL: But we are paying, we have now discovered that we are paying British taxpayers cash is being spent on supporting Turkey’s accession to the European Union, I think the Sunday Times have reported today documents that have basically shown that the government were looking at exploring the free movement of Turkish people to the United Kingdom.  These are issues that are now coming out in the public domain and actually this debate, this referendum campaign …

DM: So you didn’t know then what you know now?   

PRITI PATEL: No, no, we definitely did not know that and I would suggest actually the challenge now is to put more of this information into the public domain so that the public can actually see what is going on with the full extent of the …

DM: But it is not just Turkey is it, I have just been looking through some of your voting record.  In July 2010 you voted to establish the European Union External Action Service, December that year you voted to work closely with the European Commission to deliver a strong principle based framework for financial sector corporate governance and then in 2011 you voted against requiring a referendum prior to the UK giving emergency financial assistance via the EU to members states other than Ireland so hand over the money.  

PRITI PATEL: Let’s discuss those areas actually.  Back in 2011 as well I remember speaking during the Sovereignty Bill in Parliament calling for an annual audit actually of all these directives, all the rules that are transported over, an annual report and importantly asking for powers to be repatriated back to the government in Westminster.  We have not seen any of that.  Also if I may say so those discussions …

DM: But handing money without asking to Greece?

PRITI PATEL: … those discussions took place prior to the 2015 general election, they took place prior to our commitment to give a referendum, they took place prior to the renegotiation that actually did not deliver on our own manifesto commitments as well in terms of controlling our borders, securing our public services, making sure that people that come to the United Kingdom actually contribute so the emergency brake that’s been spoken about still has to be negotiated.  These are areas that quite frankly the British public are concerned about, we’re hearing their concerns, certainly I am when I am travelling the country and going out and about in this referendum campaign. The public want answers and they want to know that the government is on their side standing up for them against the unelected and unaccountable institutions in the European Union.

DM: Are you hearing concerns within the Conservative party about how the Prime Minister and his acolytes are conducting the Remain campaign?  

PRITI PATEL: Well all my colleagues have a view in terms of the referendum campaign, my focus has been obviously for the Vote Leave campaign and campaigning out and about the country and that is still my focus. People have different views in terms of the two campaigns but I think certainly from the Vote Leave side our arguments are resonating with the public, we are out there, the public are telling us what their concerns are and …

DM: But what about Boris Johnson talking about another MP about how to get rid of him?  

PRITI PATEL: Well I don’t know the details of any of that so I think it’s inappropriate for me to comment on that but what I would say, my colleagues – I’ve been in parliament this week, I’ve been in Westminster with my colleagues, we are focused on the two campaigns, whether it’s Remain or Leave, focused on the arguments and certainly from my side that is important.  But also we recognise as well that after the referendum we are a Conservative party in government and we will continue to work together to deliver on the various strands of our manifesto commitments.  

DM: With Prime Minister David Cameron?  

PRITI PATEL: Well of course, absolutely, I think that’s not an issue.  

DM: Even if he sacks you?

PRITI PATEL: Look, I’ve been very clear during this referendum campaign, you’ve heard the Prime Minister himself say so as well, that win or lose he will deliver the will of the British public and I support him in that.

DM: So you think he would be the man for the job even if the Leave side prevail, you think he is the one who reluctantly renegotiates the …

PRITI PATEL: I will say it again, I have been very, very clear, in fact I could not be any clearer, I have said this throughout this referendum campaign, he is the Prime Minister, he will deliver the will of the British public on the outcome of this referendum and quite frankly I do see some of the leadership question that occasionally comes up, I just think that is speculative and I think it is totally irrelevant.  David Cameron is our Prime Minister and will be after the referendum.  

DM: Okay, Priti Patel, good to see you, thank you very much indeed.