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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, working grandparents will get a new legal right to take time off to look after their grandchildren as part of a plan to make the current system of shared parental leave even more flexible.  The Chancellor has described the move as modern Conservative policy as their party conference kicks off in Manchester today.  Well Priti Patel, the Employment Minister, joins me now and a very good morning to you.  Well, Emily Thornberry from the Labour party was saying great policy but it’s Harriet Harman’s, another one you’ve nicked from Labour.

PRITI PATEL: Well I don’t agree with that one bit because we’ve been very clear, we’ve put childcare at the centre of government policies, we made it quite clear in our general election, in our manifesto.  We are increasing the amount of free childcare from 15 hours to 30 hours for working families and …

DM: For three to four year olds.

PRITI PATEL: This is for three to four year olds and that Bill is part of what we did in the last parliament where we also introduced free childcare for two year olds as well from low income families, so this is an extension, this is a continuation of what we’ve been doing.

DM: Were you already thinking about it?  Because it is an exact copy and Harriet Harman I think mentioned it first of all in April then again in June and there we are and it is yet another policy which seems to have been, let’s say borrowed or influenced by the Labour party.  Is it part of your party sensing an opportunity to move into that centre ground and colonise it forever more?

PRITI PATEL: Well two things, let’s be clear first of all when it comes to British policies today the Conservative party are in the centre ground, when you see the Labour party completing lurching to the left but specifically on the point of childcare, childcare should never be a political issue at all.  We’ve been very clear that we’re the party for working families, I was the Minister in the last parliament that legislated for our policy for tax free childcare, grandparents being a feature of that was part of the discussion that was had at the time as well so it is right and proper, I say this as a working mum myself, I rely heavily on grandparents, the grandparents of my son, to look after my son as well and that applies to hundreds of thousands of working families but also grandparents are as we know, they will benefit from this but grandparents are making sacrifices with their work and careers as well to look after their grandchildren.

DM: Indeed, indeed but it is like so many of these aspirations and these grand ideas, and know it is not part of your remit but when we hear about seven day working for the National Health Service people say great idea, of course it is but where’s the money to pay for it and on the childcare we’re hearing there is a one billion pound shortfall to cover the cost of it.

PRITI PATEL: Well I think you have to put this in the context of what we are doing in government.  This isn’t about just saying there is a block of cash to be allocated to ABC, we are a reforming government.  Yes, we are in the centre ground of British politics but it is only because of the things that we have been able to do.  Yes, in the last parliament getting the economy back on a stable and sustainable footing, we will continue to do that in this parliament but also, do you know what, you can …

DM: So are you saying you are going to reorganise parliament and get the money from somewhere else?

PRITI PATEL: You can reform public services and the delivery of public services, look at what we’ve done with education, more good or outstanding schools.  Look at the NHS, we’ve got more money going into the NHS, more money going into delivering that seven day service, more money into the recruitment of nurses and doctors, more people on the front line so you can reform, we can only do that, reform public services by having the right economic policies that lead to these policies.

DM: You’ll be aware there is one very specific reform that there’s a lot of criticism and some of it is coming from within your own party as well and this is the cuts to tax credits, the letters will go out informing people affected before Christmas that some of them will be £1000 and over £1000 a year worse off in spite of the fact of the increase in their minimum wage or the living wage.

PRITI PATEL: Well once again look at this within the broader context.  We are reforming welfare, for the first time over the last parliament we brought in significant welfare change that incentivise work, make work pay and of course our policies have been focused all on that.  We were clear in the general election, in our manifesto as well, that we would save more on welfare and we’ve outlined the measures.  Tax credits …

DM: But these are hard working families, the strivers, who will suffer.

PRITI PATEL: And they will benefit from the …

DM: They won’t.  

PRITI PATEL: They will benefit from the increases in the National Living Wage, they will benefit from the increases in the personal allowance which in April 2016 are going to …

DM: But are you saying that families, single earner households will not be worse off?  Because the IFS has got figures there, the House of Commons Library Frank Field has discovered, has found figures, the figures range from £720 a year to £1350 a year worse off, the Resolution Foundation, all saying that up to three million families will suffer.

PRITI PATEL: And those figures do not take the dynamic facts of the economy in terms of what is going on – more job creation, increases in the Living Wage, that is not factored into it  but also …

DM: They do take those into account, those are factored in there.

PRITI PATEL: But also the personal allowance, the childcare allocations that we are speaking about as well, you have to look at everything in the entirety but specifically to Tax Credits, the reforms to Tax Credits will also focus on making sure that Tax Credits are supporting those low income households and you have to look at the Tax Credit changes alongside the measures that we’ve brought in place, Universal Credit, increasing the opportunity and ability for people to work more hours in Universal Credit which of course Tax Credit has historically not enabled that to happen.

DM: Let me ask you about Europe because the Prime Minister has been saying this morning, he’s been saying in the newspapers and he’s been saying on television that if he doesn’t get what he wants during the course of renegotiation  all options are open, leaving now doubt that if he doesn’t get what he wants he might campaign to leave.  

PRITI PATEL: Well I think we should rule nothing out.  I mean the renegotiations, the discussions quite rightly have been taking place, they’ve been taking place and we are obviously the first political party in a generation to offer a referendum.  We have been very clear that ultimately the British public will have the final say and they will decide that outcome but of course we were clear and have been clear in our position that the relationship with Europe is not a satisfactory one, it needs reforming.  There are plenty of areas that the Prime Minister and my colleagues in government are focusing on when it comes to that reform and renegotiation.  I think also Dermot we must look at Europe within the whole right now, Europe is struggling. I  know for a fact, I was with my own Secretary of State in Brussels this week, Europe is very stretched, it is challenged right now, there is a recognition that reform is needed and we are the catalyst for that reform to happen and it is a very …

DM: Okay but there are different signals coming out from senior positions within the Conservative party and this from the Foreign Secretary saying that the Prime Minister needs to get a robust, substantial, irreversible package or else the British public will blow you a raspberry.  Do you go along with that, that it has to be concrete, hard and fast, signed and sealed?

PRITI PATEL: Well let’s be clear, a) I think the Prime Minister is working to achieve that but we have also outlined the areas where we know that we need more reform  and we’ve been very clear that when it comes to trade, free markets, sovereignty …

DM: But there has to be a done deal, this is the thing, there has to be a done deal and not a promise …

PRITI PATEL: Of course, it is incumbent that we make that obviously the outcome of the negotiations.  These discussions are taking place and quite frankly it is not for any of us to speculate on what those negotiations will look like when those conversations and discussions are taking place at senior leadership level right now.

DM: Okay, no speculation of course about the Prime Minister himself, he is going at some point during the course of this parliament, you’ll have a new leader, a new Prime Minister to take you into the next general election, would you like to be it?

PRITI PATEL: Well as far as I’m concerned there is no vacancy right now and we’re working …

DM: But there will be.

PRITI PATEL: Well David Cameron is currently Prime Minister and I don’t even think it is about looking beyond that.  We are here delivering what we said that we would do in this government which was outlined in our manifesto. David Cameron is leader of the Conservative party, he is our Prime Minister and we are all working to deliver exactly what we said we would do at the general election.

DM: No thoughts about who ought to take over from him?  I mean Nicki Morgan, your colleague, said that she hopes that in the not too distant future there will be another female leader, do you agree with her on that?

PRITI PATEL: Well absolutely not, as far as I’m concerned Dermot, right now the Prime Minister is both leader of the Conservative party and leader of our country and as a minister serving in his government I am there to get on with the job of doing what we’re there to do.  

DM: Okay, Priti Patel, thank you very much indeed.