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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now senior Tories have called for Andrea Leadsom to stand aside in the Conservative leadership race with reports this morning that 20 MPs would quit the party if she wins that race.  The Employment Minister Priti Patel says Mrs Leadsom could become the Conservative equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn in that she’d be supported by the membership but not by the majority of MPs.  Well I’m joined now by Tim Loughton, Andrea Leadsom’s campaign manager and in just a moment we are hoping to be hearing from the Cabinet Office Minister, Robert Halfon, he’s backing Theresa May of course but Mr Loughton, a very good morning to you.  What do you say to that from Priti Patel there, is it a mirror image or slightly similar to what’s going on in the Labour party?  You have a candidate who is not supported by the MPs and may be very popular with the membership, we’ve still got to find that out.  

TIM LOUGHTON: Well she was supported by the MPs, it’s just that Theresa May got more votes than her and the fact that we have got two very strong candidates who both happen to be women, who both happen to go to state school, gosh this is a new sort of Conservative party and it’s a really good leadership contest and we must go through with that leadership contest because the way it works in the Conservative party is that MPs play an advisory role, we whittle it down to two and then it is up to our membership up and down the country and the more people see of Andrea – obviously Theresa has been in parliament longer, as long as me, so more people know her – but the more people see Andrea the more they say gosh, we like this, a fresh face.

DM: But just on this with the MPs and the membership, we still have a long way to go before we find out the views of the membership but if she gets it, if your candidate gets it, she then does have to address that large number of MPs, that large majority of MPs who voted for Theresa May and unify the party before she starts dealing with the country.

TIM LOUGHTON: But Theresa would have to do the same because we have a lot of people in the Conservative party who voted for Brexit and Theresa was on the Remain side so whichever the successful candidate there is a big job of work to do to bring the party together and to bring the country together.  Andrea is actually a really nice person, widely liked within the Conservative party and widely respected across the whole of the House of Commons so she has form when it comes to bringing people together but let me just go back to the leadership campaign back in 2001, MPs voted for Ken Clarke and the eventual decision by the country at large was Iain Duncan Smith so it wouldn’t be the first time that …

DM: And what a success that turned out to be.  

TIM LOUGHTON: Well no, he became our leader and we didn’t have mass resignations or people like Priti saying this will never work so it is up to our membership.  

DM: But they went against him and threw him out.   

TIM LOUGHTON: But nobody started jumping ship.

DM: Okay, Robert Halfon is here I’m glad to say who is supporting Theresa May in the leadership election.  I know you heard quite a lot of that conversation, is this issue of reunifying the party whoever wins – and tell me why your candidate is best placed to do that.  Clearly she got the majority of MPs but we don’t know what your membership thinks yet.

ROBERT HALFON: Well she is the unity candidate, it’s not just having a majority of MPs.  She’s got the leading Leavers, so Liam Fox for example, Chris Grayling, David Davies, Priti Patel as you’ve just been mentioning, James Cleverly on the back benches, she’s got the support of the Daily Mail, a leading Leave newspaper, the support of the Sun.  She is someone who can unite both the party and the country.

DM: What’s your view, and a lot of this has flowed from the interview that Andrea Leadsom gave to the Times yesterday, what’s your view on that, this issue of  motherhood and fitness to lead?

ROBERT HALFON: Well in all my dealings with Andrea Leadsom, although I am a strong Theresa May supporter, I find her to be a very decent person.  I think she has apologised or given a statement to say that she meant no offence by it and I’m quite happy with that.  I think we need to discuss the issues, I am supporting Theresa because she is a compassionate Conservative and a unifier.  

DM: Well she said she was stitched up in the way that it was used but there were great chunks in which she said what she said, does that not show naivety in your view?

ROBERT HALFON: She issued a statement later on in the day, she apologised for any offence that had been given and I am quite happy with that because I think it is important that we concentrate on the key issues facing our nation.  

DM: Do you believe it exposes her lack of, I suppose guile, her naivety and some say that makes her unfit to be Prime Minister?

TIM LOUGHTON:  No, I think that’s unfair.  The thing with Andrea, she is a very genuine person and she gave an interview to a very experienced journalist with the Times who clearly wanted to lead her down a path and she kept going on relentlessly about the children issue, the journalist and Andrea made it absolutely clear and she made it clear right through this campaign, that we are not running any negative stuff, in no way is our campaign about undermining the other candidates and is about the positive case for why Andrea will be the best candidate for Prime Minister.  She is fired up, what makes her passionate in politics is her children and her family, since when has it been a crime to be proud about your children and today we just heard Andy Murray saying what fires him up is his children so is he being critical of other tennis players as well?

DM: Okay, let’s get on to the substance of it.  People are going to want to know as this leadership campaign continues is one key question flowing from the results of the referendum, let’s be explicit, when would your candidate trigger Article 50, the formal process by which the UK starts to leave the European Union?

ROBERT HALFON: Well Theresa May has said that she would have a proper Brexit Ministry, someone in the Cabinet who is a leader in charge of the Brexit negotiations and Article 50 would be triggered either at the end of this year or some time early next year.  

DM:  So that is definitive irrespective …  

ROBERT HALFON: That is what she has said.  

DM: Irrespective of what happens in the conversations, even informal conversations with the European Union and some of the senior countries?

ROBERT HALFON: That is what she has said so far and I’m sure more detail will be set out over the coming weeks and months but I think that is a pretty clear position.

DM: Okay, end of the year or a bit later but Tim Loughton, your candidate is very clear, the second she gets the job.  

TIM LOUGHTON: No, she said she wants to get on with it and there are various ways you can do this.  You can trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, you can rescind the 1972 Act.  We are going to have a group of people, of experts advising on this, taking advice as well from what our partners in Europe would like to see too but she has made it very clear that as the Brexit candidate who fought passionately for Brexit during the referendum because she believes Britain’s best future is outside of the EU, she wants to get on with it.  No if’s, no but’s, none of this nonsense about second referendum, she will do it in the speediest possible way that will achieve an effective start to negotiations.  

DM: So are you saying there may be some wriggle room on the actual triggering of Article 50?  I was led to believe from what I read from her and even that interview yesterday that she gets on with it, she gets through the door of Number 10 and that’s it, and that’s what the EU say, then negotiations start.  

TIM LOUGHTON: She gets on with it, there are various ways of getting on with it and there is a sense of urgency with Andrea because we have now made this clear decision.  She fought hard for that clear decision, she wants to get on with negotiating our future outside of the EU.  She is not going to be bounced into saying it has got to be on a certain day, it’s got to be a certain way, we will do it in the best way that’s in the best interests of this country as soon as possible.

DM: Okay, other issues of substance, what happens to EU nationals?  Again it seems different things are being said by the two candidates, what happens to EU nationals already residing in the United Kingdom?  Theresa May seems to be saying that is dependent on what happens to British nationals living in other parts of the EU.

ROBERT HALFON: Actually she has been incredibly honest because what she’s said is I want to guarantee the status of EU nationals here and I believe that, I don’t believe anyone wants to …

DM: But she hasn’t said that.

ROBERT HALFON: She has, she’s said it on a number of occasions, she wants to give them every assurance but she also wants to guarantee the status of British nationals, the millions of British nationals who live in the European Union.  I think that’s sensible.

DM: So they are human shields, they’re bargaining tools.

ROBERT HALFON: No, she is just being honest because of course these things will always be discussed in any kind of negotiation in terms of our withdrawal, she is actually being honest, she is not saying things she can’t keep but she is saying she wants to guarantee and assure the people who are here that they can stay here but she also wants to guarantee that British nationals will be able to stay where they are in the European Union.

DM: So that is mutually assured destruction.  If you start throwing British nationals out, then we’ll start throwing out EU nationals.  

ROBERT HALFON: I do not believe that anyone will be deported here.  She is being honest, we are leaving the European Union, of course this subject is going to come up.

DM: Andrea Leadsom’s position though is still a bit … 

TIM LOUGHTON: No, it’s not …

DM: Well up to this point EU nationals can stay but if you come in now or afterwards or before triggering of Article 50 you may have to go.  

TIM LOUGHTON: Andrea has made it absolutely clear, she is not going to use people’s lives as bargaining chips in this whole negotiation and she has made it clear that anybody who is here, European nationals who are here legally – and it will not include those people, those 13,000 people who are awaiting deportation out of the country – then their rights, their residency is absolutely safe and we would certainly want to make sure …

DM: When does the points system apply to them then?

TIM LOUGHTON: The points system will come in when we start these negotiations and we will take a view as practically when it needs to start.

DM: So anybody up to that point then is free to come in because we are still members of the European Union and they can stay for good?

TIM LOUGHTON: We will not be in a position for her to start this process until she becomes Prime Minister for starters so we are still several weeks away from that. We need to do this in an orderly manner but I think there is a fear – and I had somebody came up to me at a street surgery yesterday who is German saying what is my status going to be?  And Theresa has got to make this clearer, we need certainty for people and not trying to play politics with people’s lives and  Andrea has made it very clear.

ROBERT HALFON: Theresa has said a number of times, both in the Evening Standard and on the Peston programme last week, that she wants to guarantee the status of EU nationals here and in fact Andrea Leadsom has said she wouldn’t necessarily guarantee the status of any EU national who comes here before we leave the European Union so it is actually Theresa who is being honest about this and just making clear that we must guarantee …

DM: Last question and it’s back to the party, fears of a split we’re hearing from your side Robert Halfon, if Andrea Leadsom gets in.

ROBERT HALFON: Well I certainly wouldn’t leave the Conservative party and I don't think, I don't know how true that story is.  I think whoever is leader we should all work together, we need to be a united party and that’s why I’m supporting Theresa May.  As I say she brings unity back not just to our party but to our country as well and she is a compassionate Conservative as shown by what she’s done in the Home Office and she brings the security and stability that our country needs.

DM: Tim Loughton, do you believe it, that some are saying we might consider our future in the party?

TIM LOUGHTON: As Rob and I know, our Conservative colleagues are a funny old bunch.  There is a lot of posturing, I’ve heard a few people are still rerunning the referendum campaign arguments so I’m not sure who they think they are helping by doing this and some of the names that have come out actually should … a long period of judicious silence might go a long way to help our cause.  

DM: We didn’t get that from either of you thank goodness!  Tim Loughton, Robert Halfon, thank you both very much indeed.