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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, while Europe might be dominating the political landscape, let’s not forget the crucial elections next week, not least in Scotland of course where if the polls are to be believed, the Scottish Conservatives could be poised to push Labour perhaps into third place.  Well I am joined now by Ruth Davidson, their leader and very good morning to you.  Well what a target, what a prize that would be.  Is that your ambition, is that your measure of success or failure, to get ahead of Labour?  

RUTH DAVIDSON: Good morning Dermot.  Our level of success, our measure is the same as it’s always been in this campaign.  We set it out last year and that is to have the best ever Holyrood results in our history, more votes, more MSPs than ever before but you’re right, there is a big prize in coming second, being the official opposition and that’s to have the sort of strong opposition we’ve just not had for the last nine years.  We’ve had nine years of a Labour party, six leaders in that time and they basically haven’t laid a glove on the SNP so I’m making a really clear and precise pitch to people in this election and that is vote for me and I will do a specific job for you.  I will hold the SNP to account, I’ll say no to a second independence referendum and I’ll make sure that they concentrate on things that matter to you and your family like schools, public service, our police force etc.  

DM: Okay, plenty there to examine but is it the case then that you feel you have grown the Scottish Conservatives appeal or isn’t the reality that the SNP have nicked all of Labour’s votes?

RUTH DAVIDSON: Well as I say, we are heading towards our best ever result and that is as a result of us as a party having grown.  Yes, it is absolutely fair to say that the Labour party in Scotland is in a bit of a mess right now, I’m sure that at some point in the future it will come back but we do need a strong opposition.  We have an SNP government that looks set to enter its third term, in the time I have spent in the Parliament, in the building just behind me, I’ve watched time after time, Bill after Bill, piece of legislation after piece of legislation, where the official opposition as it were, the Labour party, has sort of grumbled from the sidelines and then lined up with the SNP and voted for it anyway.  Now that’s not the sort of challenge a government should have, that’s not the sort of scrutiny we deserve, it’s not the debate that our country needs and has been missing and that’s the job I think I can do for the people of Scotland.  Is to go toe to toe with Nicola Sturgeon and make sure we have that sort of scrutiny, we make them justify the decisions that we’re making and make sure that we don’t pass some of the bad laws that we’ve had.

DM: But to really have an effect, given that it looks like the SNP are going to pile up votes and seats again, to really lay a glove on them you have to join up don’t you and you are talking on issues like Trident, working with Labour.  

RUTH DAVIDSON: No, what we’re talking about is making sure we can lead this sort of opposition our country has been missing.  Let me give you one example, that is something called Named Persons Legislation.  Now that is in essence imposing a state guardian on every family in Scotland to be in charge of your child from birth until age 18, we are the only party in the Parliament that consistently argued against that.  We have now seen outrage in the country about what’s happening, just in August coming, everyone is going to have this state guardian imposed upon them and now suddenly the Labour party is saying, well let’s have a pause and review this again, the Lib Dems only this morning coming onside.  If I am the head of the opposition, if I’m leading in there, then let’s bring this back to the Parliament, let’s say to the SNP look, you do not have the country onside here, let’s have the kind of review, let’s get this legislation stopped and instead of spreading our resource in Scotland too thin, let’s spend that resource on the families that need to most to make sure that we prevent any tragedies in the future.  

DM: And on the issue of a second independence referendum, we are all trying to pick apart, aren’t we, the SNP’s formulation on whether or not to hold a second referendum will be decided by the Scottish people, this is what the SNP have said.  So in that case it seems to come down to a vote to leave the European Union or not, do you think if the vote is to leave there will be a Scottish independence referendum pretty soon, relatively soon after that?

RUTH DAVIDSON: No, I don’t and let’s pick apart what you’ve just said because I think you gave a very generous interpretation of what’s in the SNPs manifesto.  What they have in essence said is that Nicola Sturgeon reserves the right to call another independence referendum as soon as she thinks she can win one.  Well I’m sorry, constitutional politics doesn’t work like that and I for one will certainly be standing in her way and saying I want to speak up for the two million people who voted to stay part of the United Kingdom and to stand up for the decision that she made, the bilateral agreement she signed with the UK government that said she would respect the result.  Starting a new campaign for independence doesn’t sound like respect to me.  So that’s one half of it, the second half is your question about Brexit and the referendum on the European Union.  First of all, this was all discussed at the time of the independence referendum, this idea that there would be a referendum on Europe, so that was all factored in when people took their vote.  Second of all, I don’t believe there will be a British exit from Europe and as you know I support staying in.  As we have seen this week as people have turned their attention to it in other parts of the UK, the gap is growing for that and the third issue is this idea, and this maybe brings in what President Obama has been saying this year, is about what other people in other countries do rather than subscribe to them because the SNP argument during the independence referendum was always that Scotland if it separated could say part of the European Union without having to reapply or go to the back of the queue.  What we saw there is that other people have ideas where it involves other countries about what should happen, so when we spoke to the Enlargement Commissioner at the EU they said absolutely not, you go to the back of the queue.  So I think there are multiple, multiple things in there.  First of all one, there is no mandate for a second referendum, it’s not in their manifesto; two, Brexit would never have been a trigger for it and three, I don’t believe there will be a Brexit so for all of these reasons I stand with the majority of people in Scotland and say we defend the decision we made to stay part of the United Kingdom.

DM: Okay, ten days of campaigning left, when is Mr Cameron coming to Scotland to join that campaign?

RUTH DAVIDSON: Ten and a half!   He won’t be because he is making sure he is looking after the House of Commons because it’s sitting right now.  He is the Prime Minister of this country, I’m the leader of the party in Scotland, this is my manifesto, this is my election campaign and this will be my team of MSPs that come into the building behind me.  I think I’ve got this one covered.  

DM: Well let me unpick that.  You effectively said Mr Cameron, you are a liability in Scotland, stay away.

RUTH DAVIDSON: I said no such thing!  I said that he is quite busy right now hosting a state visit from the leader of, the President of the United States, he’s handing the 90th birthday celebrations of our monarch, Her Majesty the Queen, the House of Commons is sitting and he’s the Prime Minister of a G7 nation and he’s looking to make sure the government’s proposals and terms of the referendum on Europe is headed by himself.  So he’s got his job to do, my job is to make sure that I make sure we make good on our pledge to the people of Scotland and that is to be the strong opposition this country so desperately needs.

DM: That doesn’t quite wash though, does it?  He is Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of which Scotland is a major part.

RUTH DAVIDSON: And he doesn’t sit in the building behind me.  He is not an MSP, he will never be an MSP, he has never been an MSP.  This is about who sits in the devolved parliament of Scotland, that will be a team led by me.  We are a devolved party in Scotland, I am in charge of our manifesto, our fundraising, our candidates, our message, our policies and that falls to me and it is a responsibility that I do not take lightly, that I take seriously and that I am executing to the very best of my ability and you’ve got ten and a half days to see how I do.

DM: Okay, indeed, but I haven’t checked this but now you mention that formulation, are there no Conservative members of the House of Commons campaigning in Scotland?   

RUTH DAVIDSON: Well David Mundell not surprisingly, because his son is standing as a candidate for the seat behind me, is helping his son out as you would expect.  In fact my parents have been on the campaign trail for me as well.  

DM: Members of Parliament though, that’s why you said Mr Cameron wouldn’t campaign there, because he’s not an MSP.  

RUTH DAVIDSON: But David Mundell is and he’s helping his son out who is standing to be an MSP.  

DM: But no one else?  

RUTH DAVIDSON: Well unfortunately at the last election just a year ago we only returned one Scottish Member of Parliament, that is David Mundell, he is obviously helping his son who is standing to be a candidate here as you would expect but until I can return more MPs, and I hope to do that in 2020 which is my next electoral opportunity to do so, he’s the only Scottish Conservative MP that’s helping fight.  

DM: Okay, we seem to have crossed wires here, what I am asking is are any other members from south of the border, are they campaigning?

RUTH DAVIDSON: I am quite sure that they have been because we’re a big family in the United Kingdom but look Dermot, we have got ten and a half days here, I’m sure there is a lot more to discuss rather than who is making up the personnel of my activists.  If anybody wants to come north in the last ten and a half days and help they are more than welcome.  I’m pretty sure that nobody has a job as big as the Prime Minister, certainly not at this time when he is hosting a state visit from the President of the United States, he is helping with the 90th birthday celebrations of Her Majesty the Queen, he’s …

DM: All last week.   

RUTH DAVIDSON: … helping a referendum on the European member and he is also sitting in the House of Commons because the House of Commons is sitting even though the building behind me isn’t.  But what I am saying to people is this, this is about who is going to be the First Minister of Scotland and who is going to be the leader of the official opposition and if you can give me your vote I can do a job for you and fill that vacancy that has been lying open for nine years, that is to be a strong opposition and that is a job that I am relishing the opportunity to do and have planned for the next fifty days of how I’m going to do it.  

DM: Sorry, we’re out of time.   Thank you very much Ruth Davidson there, the leader of the …