ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well now to the arts and in the world of the arts Britain punches well, well above its weight of course with world class theatres, museums and galleries, and actors I should say, but some in the industry are warning that all that could be put at risk if cuts to government funding are not reversed.  Well each of the main parties have included the arts in their manifesto, some more than others but only the Greens have made a specific spending commitment.  Well I am joined now by the actor and director Samuel West, best known for his roles on stage and screen, most recently in Mr Selfridge and the other night in W1A.  He is also the Chair of the National Campaign for the Arts, very good to see you Samuel.  We have got to preface this, you must be aware that you’ve got to be quite careful of being seen as another luvvie saying in the heart of a campaign where people are saying money is tight, we need money for the NHS, we need money for education, justify to us why we should be talking about the arts in this election campaign.  

SAMUEL WEST: Well of course we must defend the NHS, it is the best thing this country has ever done.  It’s interesting that the NHS and the Arts Council were both set up in the late 40s at a time when the country was broke and yet political will was found and now those two organisations are things that we can be rightly proud of and which save us money compared to their private versions.  So it’s a false dichotomy to say you can’t defend both. The important thing to say that arts funding is peanuts, the Arts Council spend is 0.05% of public spending, 5p in every £100.  Local authority spending is slightly less than half a percent.  And we’re a rich country, the 7th richest in the world, we can afford this.  Countries much poorer than us, Sweden is 41st on the world rich list has put its arts funding up seven years in a row.

DM: But we can afford it in straight monetary terms, the balance, the accounts, the ins and outs of it  but it is much more than that, it’s about the quality of the nation.  

SAMUEL WEST: It’s an investment. Exactly, it’s not just a good investment although it is a good investment and I think you could easily make the argument that arts cuts are unpatriotic because they threaten the future prosperity of our nation.  80% of people who come to this country say that one of the main reasons is because of the arts and we are really, really good at this but we have seen very worrying falls recently, 55% to 37% in music take-up in the last four years for instance in schools and similar falls in art and in drama.  If we are blocking up that talent stream that is very worrying for the future of the country so considering it is such a little amount of money and makes such good economic sense.  Of course it makes life better and more important but I feel that I have to start by making the economic argument otherwise people …

DM: You know the old argument, don’t you, you appear on the stage and I occasionally go and witness some of these productions and I look around – okay, I’m middle class, I live in London, I’m a metropolitan media type and I look around and all I see is people like me, I am [white] and I see people like me.  There is a real problem isn’t there in terms of getting the arts out to the mass of people in the United Kingdom?

SAMUEL WEST: Two thirds of the population attended an arts event in the last year and that is holding steady but of course we would like that to be more ubiquitous and more affordable. We see expense as a major barrier and every organisation I’ve ever worked for would like to change the make-up and the diversity of its audience but cuts make that very difficult.  We have now seen 14 local authorities cut their arts budget to zero when their total budget was cut by 10 or possibly 20%.  We’d happily take our fair share but we think that’s punitive.

DM: But there is a base argument that says if the production is good enough, they will come, put it on and they will come to paraphrase Field of Dreams.  
SAMUEL WEST: It’s not about funding things that people don’t like, it’s about seed funding, R&D for things that don’t yet hold water.  Imagine me 30 years ago going to a hedge fund and saying I’ve got this 900 page socialist novel from the 19th century that I want to turn into a musical, they wouldn’t call me back but the RSC was able to put money into it and now it’s Les Miserables and it’s been running for 30 years and it’s been making millions in VAT for the Exchequer.  We eventually pay back much more than it costs to fund us.  It’s seed funding, creative careers take a long time and if we can afford to spend a very small amount of money now, in encouraging people into these professions, we’ll make sure we still have the big hitters playing baddies in Hollywood movies in 30 years’ time.  

DM: That is the best way I’ve ever heard it put but is there a danger, are you saying to continue with that Samuel, that the next Les Miserables may be missed?  Is something as big as the RSC under threat?

SAMUEL WEST: We are seeing worrying signs that ticket prices are getting more expensive, that organisations reserves are going down, that take-up in schools is going down.  For such a tiny amount of money, we say investment is good and more investment would be better so put your money where your mouth is, don’t just tell us we love you here’s less, give us a tiny bit more and we promise we won’t waste it.  

DM: Just one quick aspect we’ve left out, I think all the parties, most of the parties still have a commitment to free museums and art galleries so at least that’s …

SAMUEL WEST: They do and that’s brilliant and the Conservatives have introduced tax cuts for productions and increases in lottery funding.  Overall though, funding for the arts is still falling faster and further than ever before.  We are very grateful for what we’re getting but we still say it could be more.  

DM: Well it is a delight talking to you, Samuel and the best of … I should ask you, what are you up to next, I should just ask you very quickly?  

SAMUEL WEST: I am doing the fourth and final series of Mr Selfridge for ITV.

DM: Can’t wait.  Samuel West, thank you very much indeed, very good to see you.