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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, last week David Cameron gave yet another hint that the EU referendum will be held in late June this year.  The much touted date is June 23rd and that would leave about a seven week gap between May’s various regional elections and that referendum but the devolved governments have warned such an early date could confuse issues, quote/unquote.  Well I am joined now by Stephen Gethins, the SNPs Europe spokesperson, he’s at the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh and a very good morning to you, Mr Gethins.  So why would it confuse things, it’s quite a long gap?

STEPHEN GETHINS: Well it’s not that long a gap.  Look, we’ve got really important elections coming up in May as they do in Wales, Northern Ireland, London and elsewhere and that’s why the First Ministers of Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland wrote to the Prime Minister to say to him of the date and there are two reasons: one is about respect for the Scottish parliament and other elections and the other one is this: David Cameron should have the courage of his convictions over Europe to put it to a proper debate.  Let’s have a proper debate about Europe, I’m going to be debating to stay in and I think it stands up to the scrutiny.

DM: Well we seem to be having that debate now and June is quite a long way away but the Prime Minister has also been quoting Alex Salmond when he was First Minister who actually said at the time, well a six week gap would be fine.  

STEPHEN GETHINS: Actually the Prime Minister misquoted Alex Salmond and Alex Salmond wrote to him this week about that.  Alex Salmond gave 545 days in between calling the independence referendum and the day itself, I’m not sure we’d be looking for that length of time you’ll be glad to hear but I think a little bit longer.  Alex Salmond actually signed my motion along with members of every party in parliament this week saying that the June date would be disrespectful so let’s have a longer debate, it stands up to scrutiny and if you are only going to have this debate on the European Union once every so often as the Prime Minister has said, let’s have a proper debate about that.  

DM: Well as they say, many people say that debate seems to have been going on for ages but you mention there that you are going to campaign very strongly for remaining inside the European Union.  I was just talking to the Scottish Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson, she is of the same mind-set, could you see yourself sharing platforms with people like her?

STEPHEN GETHINS: We are not going to share a platform with the Conservatives but look, I think this debate, and there was a case in the independence referendum, doesn’t just involve politicians, it also involves trade unionists, academics, businesses, civic society.  This isn’t just about politicians, the impact of leaving or remaining in the European Union will have an impact way beyond that so we should be involving as many people as we possibly can.  .

DM: Do you fear – people are beginning to take on board that we could have very soon a multi-layered constitutional crisis within the UK if overall there is a vote to leave the European Union, we’ve heard it from you and others, senior figures within the SNP, that would mean you’d have to consider very carefully whether to hold another independence referendum.  You could end up with the UK preparing to leave the European Union overall, Scotland preparing to have an independence referendum and presumably apply to rejoin?

STEPHEN GETHINS: Well look, this is something that could have been avoided.  I put down amendments to the European Union Referendum Bill which would have meant that Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and indeed England would have all have to have voted to leave in order for the UK to leave so we could have avoided this but that’s the situation we’re in now.  But as our First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon said, look if Scotland gets dragged out of the European Union against its will and polls in Scotland show us to be overwhelmingly in favour of staying, then yes it does create a bit of a crisis for what should be a partnership of equal nations within the union.  

DM: Do you have any thoughts how long that second independence referendum could take place?

STEPHEN GETHINS: Well let’s just take one referendum at a time.  We’ve got a European Union referendum and also I think any other referendum will be driven by the people but look, I think the big focus that we need at the moment is to focus on getting a yes vote but let’s have a proper debate around that and let’s not rush this in the six weeks between the very important elections taking place across the UK in May and June.  

DM: Given the size of the SNP vote I don’t need to remind you of all people about that, don’t you think – and I’ve said this before, savvy voters who have been through a lot during that independence referendum, wouldn’t some SNP supporters be making the calculation that I could actually afford to vote no here to therefore trigger a further independence referendum?

STEPHEN GETHINS: I hope not, I want as many people as possible to vote yes to staying in the European Union but look you touched upon something which is really important.   During our independence referendum which took place over a longer period of time, we had engagement from, people were getting involved right across and there was an 86% turnout and people who voted yes and voted no should have been proud of themselves by the way there was a real proper democratic engagement so I’d like to see something similar happening in this referendum as well.  I’m not sure it will but I think trying to engage people in what is a really important decision is an important thing to do.  

DM: And can I just ask you about events on Syria and on the Turkish border in particular, particularly concerning the bombing of Aleppo and nearby areas?  It seems like an increasing humanitarian crisis is developing there as tens of thousands of people are fleeting the areas that are being bombed, heading for Turkey, hoping to try and get in there and presumably make their way into the European Union.  Is the UK doing enough in terms of numbers at the moment?

STEPHEN GETHINS: No, no, the simple answer, no.  Look, we’ve got the worst refugee crisis since the Second World War, it’s just getting worse and the escalation of the conflict as you rightly point out, Dermot, in Aleppo is only going to make things worse. We need to do more.  I think the UK has agreed to take something like, in the European Union, about 0.25% of all the refugees, we need to be doing a lot more and I call on the UK government to be doing a lot more to help these refugees.   

DM: Okay Mr Gethins, good talking to you, thank you very much indeed.  Stephen Gethins there, the SNP’s Europe spokesperson.