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ANNA JONES: While David Cameron is away in Bavaria, every inch the statesman on the world stage, there’s trouble brewing for him back here in the UK.  A group of his own MPs who claim to be 50 strong already, are threatening to campaign for the country to leave Europe in the promised 2017 referendum.  The group, Conservatives for Britain, says the Prime Minister will have to get the European reforms they want or they’ll come out against him.  Joining me now is the Group’s Chairman, Steve Baker, a very good morning to you.  So explain to us why you felt the need to form this group.

STEVE BAKER: Well I think it’s part of our responsibility.  Conservative MPs will have to take a leading role in the referendum campaign when it comes, whichever side of the argument they’ll be on, so we formed the group not to set out red lines now but to discuss what the red lines might be and to be ready to assess any renegotiation when it comes and then individual colleagues will have to make their own decisions but of course we feel it would be remiss not to prepare for an out campaign.

AJ: And how many people have you got backing you?  We say 50 strong, is that about the right number?

STEVE BAKER: A little over 50 confirmed right now, I think I can get another 50 more and I think this is an overwhelmingly popular campaign with colleagues.

AJ: So you are confident you will have a hundred MPs backing you?

STEVE BAKER: I am confident … well hang on, it’s not about backing me, it’s about backing the Prime Minister and the government.  We actually have a great deal of confidence in the Prime Minister’s ability to renegotiate.  He has been spectacularly successful in Europe in getting a cut in the budget, the first time ever, in getting us out the bail- out mechanisms and so forth, so we actually back him and want him to renegotiate and deliver what he said.

AJ: Okay well let’s look at some of the things he has said he will try to renegotiate.  He says he wants restrictions on Europeans eligibility for British benefits to be looked at, a guarantee that the UK will never join the euro and also an end to the EU drive towards ever closer union, if he achieves those things will you be satisfied?

STEVE BAKER: Well he has said  also that he wants our parliaments to be the source of democratic legitimacy and transparency but that to us, I think for many of us – not to all but for many of us – that means the right to veto legislation so I think the government for most colleagues, not all but for most colleagues, would need us to give to us the power to veto legislation if it did not suit the interests of the United Kingdom and I think that’s likely to be a real sticking point.  

AJ: What about control of borders?

STEVE BAKER: I think control of borders is an issue where the British public do expect British migration policy to be made in London, I think that’s been very clear on the doorstep and I would ask the government to try and deliver some real movement on freedom of people.  

AJ: What if they don’t though?  Cameron has made it clear that that’s not going to be possible, Angela Merkel has made it clear that it’s not up for negotiation, so if he doesn’t achieve that will you campaign against him?

STEVE BAKER: I would expect personally to be campaigning to leave the European Union but let’s be clear, I want to back the Prime Minister.  I would like the Prime Minister to achieve everything he’s said and perhaps a little more but I would like to back the Prime Minister.  It would be far, far better for us all to be united as we are right now but look, it’s really not a surprise that some Conservative MPs wish to leave the European Union, that’s well known.

AJ: In truth you are setting the bar incredibly high for David Cameron aren’t you, isn’t this really just about campaigning for out?

STEVE BAKER: At this stage it’s not an out campaign, it’s a group of colleagues coming together to look at the renegotiation and assess whether or not there should be an out campaign but realistically there are plenty of us who do not expect the EU establishment to give David Cameron what even he’s asking for so therefore we would expect a campaign to come out but this is a matter of profound importance to our country and we would be failing in our duty if we didn’t take this seriously, look at these issues for ourselves and prepare for that out campaign which at least for some colleagues is inevitable.

AJ: A lot of people will look at this and say David Cameron has just won you an election, he’s won you a majority, he’s won a mandate for these renegotiations with the EU and yet you are making your demands very high and you are putting on the table  areas that aren’t open to negotiation.

STEVE BAKER: Let’s be clear, Conservatives for Britain is saying that we want to assess the renegotiation package, which every Conservative MP will have to do and then we wish to prepare for an out campaign which at least for some colleagues is an inevitable.  Realistically we are actually backing the Prime Minister, we want the Prime Minister to succeed, we’ve got great confidence in him, he’s been spectacularly successful at the ballot box, he has previously been spectacularly successful in Europe so we’re backing him, we want him to succeed, we want him to see through what  he’s previously said.  

AJ: How divided are the Tories on this issue?  

STEVE BAKER: We are remarkably united and it’s beyond now the Conservative party.  I would say that the eurosceptic movement in the UK is now remarkably united.  This is what I would say strategically, perhaps inelegantly, death ground.  We know it’s death or glory now and if people want out of the EU the moment is going to be in this parliament but we have to be responsible because our great duty to all the people of Europe is to ensure the long term peace and prosperity of our continent so we need to back the Prime Minister, express our wariness about the EU establishment which seems likely to give us very little but be ready to campaign to come out if necessary.

AJ: And the Prime Minister has ordered all his government ministers to support his negotiations, you say you are supporting them too.   He has also hinted heavily that ministers would have to back him if he’s successful and back his campaign to stay in Europe should he win what he wants to.  Should ministers in your view be allowed to campaign against him if they feel he hasn’t achieved what they’d like to see?

STEVE BAKER: I would like ministers to be able to campaign on the side of the argument which they think is correct but the crunch point is not yet, the crunch point is somewhere down the road.  It’s quite right that there should be collective…

AJ: We’re talking hypotheticals, your group is based on hypotheticals isn’t it, so what should ministers do?  Should they quit if they don’t agree with the Prime Minister?

STEVE BAKER: I think in due course, in due course if they don’t agree with the government’s position then they should quit and fight for what they believe in.  

AJ: We’ve heard from Nigel Farage in the last 24 hours saying that UKIP would get cracking on the no campaign, is he the right person do you think to lead an out of Europe campaign?

STEVE BAKER: Realistically I don't think the out campaign should be led by any politician.  I think you’ll see a crowd of Conservative MPs appearing on the media to advance different points of view, all within the same family of views, but I don't think any particular MP should be the lead face of an out campaign.

AJ: Who should be then?

STEVE BAKER: Well we’ll see.

AJ: No, give me some ideas.  

STEVE BAKER: Well I would love to see an industrialist do it, I would love to see somebody in commerce and business who is a surprise to our opponents leading a campaign in an optimistic and strong and positive way.  One of the problems with the European Union is that it is basically obsolete.  We are now in a world where with a few clicks of a mouse you can talk to anyone around the world, a few hours flight time and you can go anywhere, we now live in an amazingly optimistic and upbeat world where we can trade with anyone around the world so long as the government is not in the way.

AJ: Would Nigel Farage damage any campaign to get Britain out of Europe?

STEVE BAKER: Well he may but look, realistically with UKIP we know where their votes will be when the time comes.  My concern is to make sure we get the right renegotiation package, the best deal for Britain, to then decide as a group of Conservative MPs whether we support that deal and then it’s basically change or go.

AJ: Okay, Steve Baker, thank you very much indeed.

STEVE BAKER: Thank you very much.