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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Let’s turn now to another party affected and thinking about what the election of Jeremy Corbyn means.  It’s almost a year of course after people in Scotland rejected independence, so you know who I’m talking about, the Scottish National Party has said there could be a second referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom. The party will set out the timescale, we heard this from Nicola Sturgeon, for such a move in its manifesto ahead of the Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016.  Well I’m joined now by the Deputy Leader of the SNP, Stewart Hosie, a very good morning to you Mr Hosie.  What happened to once in a generation?

STEWART HOSIE: Well we were very clear last year when we came to terms with that referendum that we respect the result and what the First Minister has said is that we can’t rush into this.  What she’s done I think rather skilfully, properly, honestly, openly, in advance is to say here are potential triggers that could trigger a subsequent referendum.  No change in many ways, we’ve been saying this since the referendum last year, we have and I think Nicola has restated it now and I think it’s right that we give that clarity in the manifesto.   

DM: But the fact that it is going in the manifesto, you haven’t said that before.  

STEWART HOSIE: Well what we’re going to put in the manifesto is the kind of thing which could trigger a subsequent referendum.  So for example, when the no side campaigned in the referendum last year, the constitutional framework which we were to vote no for included staying in the EU.  Should there be a decision to come out of the EU, particularly if Scotland voted to stay in and the rest of the UK voted to come out, that would be a constitutional change.  Also it is self-evidently the case that if the Scottish people felt that they had been sold a pup, that they hadn’t got the promises kept that had been made – you’ll remember what Gordon Brown said, the closest thing to a federal state within one to two years, an unprecedented programme of devolution is how the Prime Minister put it, if the Scottish people decided …

DM: Former Prime Minister.  

STEWART HOSIE: Former Prime Minister, apologies … No, no, David Cameron said that, he said an unprecedented programme of devolution.  Should the Scottish people take the view that they’ve not been given anything close to what was implied by those promises, then the public will determine that they want to …

DM: And also in that post referendum environment, the issue of English votes for English laws.  If Scots feel that they are excluded, that they are not getting full representation within the current House of Commons, would that be a potential trigger?

STEWART HOSIE: Well we’d have to see because certainly at the moment what’s been proposed is unworkable.  I mean the example of income tax is a cracker, I mean the UK politicians say ‘But you’re getting income tax’.  No, we’re not, we’re getting rates and bands, we’re not getting the definition of income, earned or unearned, we’re not getting the allowances that go with it and that means we can be carved out of decision making in Westminster which would actually change the forecast yield for the Scottish government and there is precisely nothing we could do about it.  So we need to look at the detail of that, the technical detail because right now what is being proposed is simply unworkable.  

DM: And all those are technical points, people can assess should we leave Britain, votes overall to leave the United Kingdom and things like that but something else Nicola Sturgeon said yesterday and this directly pertains to the election of Jeremy Corbyn and I paraphrase obviously, ‘If Jeremy Corbyn isn’t seen to be laying a glove on the Conservatives and the Scottish people decide we are stuck with a Conservative government for ever more, then independence is the only option.’

STEWART HOSIE: Well let’s be clear, the arguments for independence, for any constitutional change, stand on their own, they are not dependent on who happens to lead a UK party or who happens to be Prime Minister but you’re right, the public themselves may conclude this is a busted flush.  

DM: How do you read that?

STEWART HOSIE: Look, we saw last week and this isn’t the only way but we saw last week the opinion polls for independence, in one independence took the lead, the other was a substantial rise in support for independence. It is now extremely close in that second poll.  I think the Scottish body politic has got enough nous and we’re close enough to the public to see what the mood is.  

DM: So that’s indefinable, we’ve talked about the other technical triggers, if any of them or a combination of them come to pass and David Cameron or whoever is Prime Minister says no, no, no, you said once in a generation, we in Westminster are not passing legislation for a referendum, a binding referendum to take place, would you also consider holding a unilateral one, holding an indicative one and then saying to Westminster, the Scottish people have voted for independence?

STEWART HOSIE: Well the language actually used was once in a political generation and the second thing about that is we had said and we’re absolutely clear about this and I still am, there has to be a qualitative shift in circumstances and the First Minister is laying out what they may or may not be but in terms of the passing of legislation, we were quite clear we could have held an indicative referendum anyway.  The fact that there was the transfer of power to make sure it was done was very helpful but I think if there was a mandate to hold a referendum at some point in the future, if the public had determined that there was going to be one and there was a mandate for a referendum, I think any UK Prime Minister who tried to stand in the way of the Scottish people would be very, very foolish indeed.

DM: And in the short term, Jeremy Corbyn, a big chance here given the similarities when it comes particularly to social policies and things like that, for co-operation between the SNP and the Labour party in opposing the Conservatives.  

STEWART HOSIE: Yes, absolutely.  We think that Jeremy Corbyn has probably voted with the SNP more than any other Labour MP, he is now the leader so here’s a challenge – if he can bring his party with him on the things he believe in of which many, not all by any manner of means, but many are the same as ours, perhaps we can have the opportunity of a genuine progressive alliance that we spoke about at the election.  So if for example we can have Labour rolling in behind to say no to Trident and its replacement, if we can Labour rolling in behind to say let’s properly reform the House of Lords, no more unelected peers, that would be a great result but of course he has the challenge to bring with him many people, a number of which as you know have said they won’t serve under him.   

DM: We’ve been discussing that very issue as you know.  Deputy Leader, very good to see you.  Thank you very much indeed, Stewart Hosie there, Deputy Leader of the SNP.