ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now the French Economy Minister has warned if Britain leaves the European Union it could become a tiny trading outpost like the island of Guernsey he said.  Emmanuel Macron also said the Union would have to send a very firm message and timetable to the UK if it does vote to leave. Well I am joined now by the French Ambassador to the UK, Sylvie Bermann, a very good morning to you Ambassador.  I’ll get on to those comments in a moment or two but first of all just tell me about the reaction around Europe, particularly in France, to the killing of Jo Cox.  

SYLVIE BERMANN: Yes, the killing  of Jo Cox is of course a real tragedy and we expressed our solidarity, our sadness and our President has sent a message also to David Cameron.  

DM: And what about this from Emmanuel Macron?  It just sounds ludicrous, how could the UK in or out of the European Union become like a tiny island like Guernsey?  

SYLVIE BERMANN: Well I would like to say first of course that the decision to remain or leave is the decision for the British public but we can’t be indifferent of course because it will have consequences on our countries and on France obviously.  We are very similar countries, the same population, more or less the same growth rate and we are members of the same organisations, the same status in the world and so we work very closely in the UN, G20, NATO and in the EU obviously and the fact that we are members of the EU strengthens our weight in the world, so this is very important for us that the UK remains in the EU.  Of course the package will be implemented, we have done everything to help David Cameron to stay in the EU.

DM: And that’s the point isn’t it?  That’s potentially the more important point that Mr Macron was making there, that France given how powerful it is within the European Union and others, if the vote is to Leave, the Leave campaigners say an independent United Kingdom could swiftly negotiate new deals with the European Union.  The European Union could make that very difficult, could punish the UK.

SYLVIE BERMANN: Well it’s not punishment but if you decide to leave the family then the rules of the game will not be the same and what is very clear is that if you want access to the single market you need free movement of people and also contribution to the budget.  It’s not a punishment at all, it is just a statement of the facts and of the rules but we clearly said that we would like the UK to stay within the EU because we are stronger together.

DM: And if the vote is to leave, this has a direct bearing on France and the UK, France has the power to say well, those border officials from the UK who are based at the moment in France, have to withdraw to the borders of the United Kingdom.  

SYLVIE BERMANN: Yes, for the time being of course we have a bilateral agreement but it was within the overall framework of being members of the same union and you know in France you have lots of people and local politicians who are saying if they leave, the border will have to be transferred to Dover. Of course that’s not the decision for the time being, we will have to see but you can understand why.  

DM: But in effect, Ambassador, if that happens that mean then that France says to the thousands of refugees, would be refugees and migrants who want to come to the UK, that they will do nothing to prevent that, that it is up to the UK to deal with them when they arrive within its territory.  

SYLVIE BERMANN: Well I don't know what’s going to happen and nobody knows for the time being.  Of course if the UK decides to leave we have to think about a lot of new situations and how we are going to deal with them but in fact, as immigration is concerned, there won’t be less immigration because illegal migrants will continue to try to go to the UK.  r arguments and experts who produce the real evidence behind them.  

DM: Let me ask you while we are discussing those camps where many would be migrants are staying, why has France blocked an aid convoy today coming from the UK?  

SYLVIE BERMANN: Well you know for the time being we have the Euro 16 and it is under very serious pressure and terrorist threats and so we don’t want to divert our policemen, our police forces to Calais.  Last time there was such a convey there was mayhem and policemen were injured so it’s not the right time.  Those refugees in Calais now are in camps with humane conditions and we don’t want also to disrupt the traffic across the Channel.  

DM: Can I ask you also, you mentioned Euro 16 and obviously the security concerns and diverting resources you mentioned there, what about when it comes to the trouble being caused by some England fans, some other fans as well, do you resent that?  

SYLVIE BERMANN: Well we have taken measures against those, let’s say, hooligans and there were Russians who have been expelled and some British hooligans who also have been sent to jail when they don’t behave properly, we have to react obviously but apart from that you still have three teams competing and …  

DM: But you say you are diverting resources from dealing with the bigger and more important terrorist threat.

SYLVIE BERMANN: Well we deployed anyway 90,000 police forces in France to prevent incidents during this Euro 16 and well, we have very serious threats and it is the most important for us.  

DM: Ambassador, good to see you, thank you very much indeed for sparing the time to come in.  Sylvie Bermann there.