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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then to the new head of one of Britain’s biggest unions who has warned that the Remain camp risks losing the referendum if Labour does not mobilise its voters.  Tim Roache who became leader of the GMB earlier this year said the party needs to be bolder and braver in making the case for immigration and Mr Roache joins me now from the Union’s Congress in Bournemouth, a very good morning to you.  Well you talk about being bolder and braver but you’re not exactly that are you because you say you describe yourself as an angry Remainer.  

TIM ROACHE: I think I’m very bold and brave on behalf of my union Dermot, therefore – good morning by the way – what we’re talking about an angry Remain is to try and get the message across that we recognise that Europe is far from perfect so being able to try and seek reform you have to stay in and you have to seek reform on behalf of working people and that’s the difference, you know.  When people like Cameron and Osborne talk about reforming Europe they are talking about reform on behalf of big business in pursuit of profits.  What the GMB are talking about with our angry remain is that Europe is far from perfect but we have to recognise that the facts are that Europe has brought many good working rights for working people.  Things like the right to four weeks guaranteed paid holiday, things like parental leave, things like health and safety legislation that means people return home at night in one piece to their loved ones.  So this angry remain isn’t half hearted at all, it’s absolutely 100% on remain but recognising that Europe is far from perfect.

DM: I have to put to you quite a lot of points that Kate Hoey, who as you know is on the Leave side in the Labour camp and she addressed that and said a lot of that, because of work like organisations like yours over many, many decades predates membership of the European Union or even the Common Market.  

TIM ROACHE: What nonsense.  The facts will speak for themselves.  Predates?  The guaranteed four weeks holiday was well within the life of the latest Common Market if that’s what you want to call it.  Facts are stubborn things you know, the facts are that in the last 20 years it is those workers’ rights that have come from Europe that have been our bedrock, that have been our safety blanket and the reality of a leave campaign, if we Brexit, is that we are then left in terms of workers and worker’s rights who I represent, 640,000 people I’ve been elected to represent.  I left at the behest of Cameron and Osborne and everything we’ve seen with the Trade Union Bill, where they tried to attack worker’s rights, the very voice of working people, I don’t want to be left with that so therefore I’m saying to our people, get yourselves out on June 23rd, it’s the biggest vote for a generation not just for ourselves but our kids too.  Get out to vote Remain and seek reform of Europe.

DM: But you have concerns about that don’t you?  Kate Hoey tells me she’s been around Labour constituencies and been in the offices and she says she sees boxes of Remain leaflets sitting there, people not knocking on the doors and putting them through the letter boxes and explaining them, there’s no heart, no enthusiasm at the Labour grassroots level to campaign.

TIM ROACHE: I don't think that’s right at all.  I’m not sure what gave Kate the right to speak on behalf of the whole of the Labour party.  What I did earlier on this week, I called for Jeremy Corbyn to come out and be a bit less half-hearted about Europe and say positive things about why Labour’s case is to remain in Europe.  He did a fantastic job with that on Thursday morning, listen to what he said.  He talked about worker’s rights, he talked about immigration, he talked about security of the country, he talked about peace in our time, he talked about trading and tariffs and he talked eloquently and he talked positively.  I defy anyone, any of the working people that I represent to disagree with a single word he said.  He’s right but we recognise in that that Europe’s far from perfect and that’s what the angry remain from the GMG is about.  It’s about making sure that people see the [inaudible], immigration is a very good case in point.  Dermot, I have a number of members who feel, well, is it really right when European people are coming over here taking our jobs?  It isn’t about that at all, it’s unscrupulous employers, greedy employers in pursuit of more profits that are bringing people over from Romania and Poland and Hungary to come in and work at less rates than those that my members have worked tirelessly for and fought tirelessly for over the years.  

DM: So the best way of keeping them out then is to leave the EU isn’t it?  

TIM ROACHE: Of course it isn’t, it’s the opposite, it’s to make sure that we outlaw this system of undercutting.  That’s not a European Union legislation issue, that’s a UK government issue.  The Tories could outlaw that straight away, they don’t choose to do so because they’re the bosses party.

DM: Outlaw what, the free movement of people within the European Union as long as they are paid the minimum wage then it’s entirely legal.

TIM ROACHE: Exactly, the minimum wage.  Many of these employers are hugely profitable, they weigh their profits in the millions and billions and do so on the back of offering our young people in 2016 zero hours contracts or minimal hours contracts and then they pay them the absolute national minimum wage.  For most of these employers it’s become the national maximum wage, that’s a scandal.  Who do you think makes those profits for these workers, for these employers?  It’s the workers who make the profits, it’s about time the workers started sharing them.  Just to say as long as they pay the national minimum wage everything’s all right?  Well I’m afraid it is not all right for the 640,000 people I represent and it never will be, I’ll never stop in pursuit of that.

DM: But I’m talking about the current laws within the United Kingdom and within the European Union, how do you stop that if you remain within the European Union?  As I say, people are free to come from any one of the member states and they are free to work here.

TIM ROACHE: Of course they’re free to work here, people want to come and work here.  Look we need to differentiate between economic migrants and migrants that are coming here to flee war torn countries and trying to find themselves and their families a safe haven, you can’t possibly disagree with that.  Economic migrants, people from Poland and Romania and places like that are young people, they don’t want to sit in their bedroom with the curtains closed claiming benefits, they want to work and it’s all very well when they train and educate or feed our kids, it’s all very well when migrant workers look after our ailing parents in care homes but suddenly we’re saying that they’re sponging and taking our jobs.  The other thing is housing, they’re coming here taking our houses, really?  That’s not an issue about them taking our houses, that’s the shortage of housing that through the Thatcher government and the New Labour years by the way, they should hang their heads in shame that we never built enough houses.  

DM: Great talking to you Mr Roache, I’m afraid we’re out of time.  Thank you very much indeed there, Tim Roache of the GMB.