ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now Labour say they have declared war on tax avoiders and evaders this morning, they say they would push emergency laws through parliament to raise more than £7.5 billion a year, you just heard that from the Shadow Chancellor.  Well I’m joined now by Labour’s Shadow Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper, a very good morning to you.  £7.5 billion a year, really?  Doesn’t every party say that?  The Chancellor just announced in the budget that he would save £5 billion, haven’t you just plucked a conveniently large figure from the air?

YVETTE COOPER: No, it is an ambitious and it’s a stretching target but we think it is right to do so because under the Conservatives the gap between the amount of tax that should be being paid and that is being paid has been widening. It used to be closing, now it is widening again, we’ve got to nail that gap.  It is unfair, people should be paying their fair share but we have also set out …

DM: Well everyone agrees with that abut £7.5 billion a year?

YVETTE COOPER: That’s right and we’ve set out a ten-point plan to help deliver that but we also want the Treasury to do more, we want HMRC to do more.  It does include getting rid of the non-dom status, it does include getting rid of some of the loopholes that hedge funds and others have been exploiting, the Eurobonds.

DM: Hedge funds that contributed to the Labour party.

YVETTE COOPER: Look, we want fair rules and it is right to have fair rules given some of the issues there has been around self-employment that’s not genuine, a whole series of different areas that we think it is right to take action in order to close those loopholes and have people paying their fair share.

DM: Would it include the deeds such as your leader and his brother used to deal with the inheritance of the family home?

YVETTE COOPER: Well no, that’s not right and as you know …

DM: It’s not right, did it happen or what?

YVETTE COOPER: As you know, Ed has paid all of the taxes he was required to do.  

DM: What about those deeds of variation?

YVETTE COOPER: What it does is this 7.5 ambitious target says that all issues should be looked at by the Treasury as part of making sure that you can close that gap between what’s being paid, what should be paid and what is being paid because that gap’s been getting too wide.  The fact that we have set out practical things that the Conservatives have just refused to do, they have opposed these changes on non-doms, we don’t think it’s fair that people who are just exploiting these rules should actually be in Britain …

DM: But they made changes on non-doms, they proposed changes and did them and for putting up the charge they pay.

YVETTE COOPER: I know but they have refused to make our changes which is to end the non-dom status and which is, you know, to have, to allow people to continue to exploit these rules where they can be British citizens, they can be resident in Britain but still exploiting these rules so they are not paying their fair share compared to everybody else, at a time when you are seeing millions of families across the country really squeezed, at a time when the Tories put up VAT.  We think it’s right to have these fair rules that everybody should be doing their bit.

DM: Okay but it’s just the size of it, £7.5 billion a year, you’d think if it was there any government would go for it but you’ve spent the last week rubbishing the government when they talk about this £8 billion extra on the NHS, you’ve said they plucked that from the air, haven’t you done just the same here with this £7.5 billion?

YVETTE COOPER: No we haven’t because we are not saying that this money is going to be used to fund a particular pledge that’s unfunded, what the Tories are doing is they are making promises and they can’t say where the money is going to come from, we’re not doing that at all.  We’re saying this is our target and this is what the Treasury want the Treasury to deliver and we want to be using some of this money to pay the deficit down because it’s right to do so but what the Tories are doing are just say, in the last few days we have had, was it a billion on volunteering some estimates say, another billion unfunded for train fares some estimates are saying and then they’re saying another eight billion that they are plucking out for the Simon Steven’s plan, all of these times, eight times George Osborne was asked this morning to say where that £8 billion was coming from and eight times he could not answer and it is important …

DM: We just need to know where Labour stand on that £8 billion because Ed Miliband is on the record as saying when you announced the £2.5 billion extra for the NHS that it was over and above the Conservative plans, do we add the £2.5 billion to the £8 billion that the Conservatives have announced?

YVETTE COOPER: Well Ed’s plan are over and above what the Tories would do and …

DM: So it is £10.5 billion?

YVETTE COOPER: But it’s not real what they are saying is it?  Nobody believes it because they’ve set out plans that will mean steeper cuts in the next three cuts in the next three years than we’ve had in the last five years, so deeper cuts to public spending as part of their approach …

DM: But we know the NHS is ring fenced and this extra £8 billion has been announced.

YVETTE COOPER: Yes but where is it going to come from?  It’s not real, this is just fantasy figures from – George Osborne, eight times he was asked, eight times he could not answer because he doesn’t know.  He’s been making it up as he goes along because the Tories are getting so panicked now and it’s a time when they …

DM: So Labour is only talking about two and a half billion extra, so well short of Simon Stevens recommendations?

YVETTE COOPER: We’re setting out exactly where we would find all the money that we need and every pledge that we’re making, we’re making sure it is properly costed and fully funded.  Now we won’t do the Tories extreme cuts to public spending over the next five years, that’s what George Osborne set out and…

DM: No cuts to the NHS which you know is protected but leaving aside the Conservatives, what about Simon Stevens, wouldn’t you give him, if he’s still there, the £8 billion?

YVETTE COOPER: We will make sure the NHS has the money it needs and that’s what we’ve always done but as you know it was the Labour party that brought in the National Health Service in the first place and we also made sure that waiting times came down, that we had more doctors, more nurses when we were in government so of course we’ll make sure that the NHS has the money it needs and part of the way we do that is by making sure that we have a mansion tax, we’ll have practical measures that will raise £2.5 billion – we can say where the money is going to come from, the Tories can’t, they are just making it up which means no one will believe them.  Or alternatively you’ve got a figure which is going to have to raise VAT because they can’t say where the money is going to come from and then we’ve got steeper cuts in the next few years, not better ones.  

DM: I want to turn to your specific patch now which of course is immigration and this mug which you will be very well aware of which is causing some controversy within your party isn’t it?  It just simply says ‘Controls on immigration, I’m voting Labour 7th of May’.   It seems to be pretty hard to get your hands on and it seems that some senior members of your party don’t want to get their hands on it – the Shadow Business Secretary, the Shadow Justice Secretary, Diane Abbott said it’s shameful.  Are you proud of that mug?

YVETTE COOPER: Look, we’ve got a whole series of different pledges and all of them on the different mugs and it’s right that we should do so.  Immigration is important for Britain but it’s got to be controlled and …

DM: What about Chuka Umunna, what has he said about it?  He doesn’t want to appear with it, you clearly are proud of it.

YVETTE COOPER: Look, it’s a bit of a storm in a coffee cup, this one and you are not going to draw me into a whole debate about this.  Look, the practical policies are that we want to make sure that we have stronger border controls and that means having a thousand more border staff to actually do proper checks, to follow up on visas because that’s what happened …

DM: Those are already starting are they?

YVETTE COOPER: Well no, they’re not, they’ve not brought them in properly, these exit checks that they’ve got, they haven’t actually brought them in at all because they made such a mess of the computer contract and so on so what we actually need is proper entry and exit checks but also a thousand more border staff to do the job. We’ve said how that will be paid for because we would raise some visa waiver charges in order to put that money in, we would also change the benefit rules so that people coming to Britain can’t claim benefits until they have been here for more than two years and …

DM: The Conservatives are saying today four years for in-work benefits so that’s already happening as well.  

YVETTE COOPER: Well actually it is something that’s not happening, what have they done in the last five years?  They haven’t dealt with it and the thing that is different about our approach compared to any other party is that we would deal with the exploitation by agencies, recruitment agencies and employers who are exploiting immigration to undercut wages and jobs. That makes the system unfair.  We’ve got some recruitment agencies only recruiting from abroad, we would change the law and make exploitation a crime and we recognise as well, look, if you have students coming to Britain to our universities, overseas students, they bring billions into Britain so we shouldn’t be trying to restrict the overseas university students at the same time as doing nothing about inward immigration which unfortunately is what the Conservatives have done.

DM: I must get a last response from you on this plan announced by the Conservatives about increasing inheritance tax thresholds, if it includes a property up to a million pounds for a couple, Labour’s response?

YVETTE COOPER: Well they promised that before and they didn’t deliver it but I think it’s the wrong priority, it won’t affect 90% of estates and they are talking about this £140,000 tax cut  for properties that are worth around £2 million at a time when we have got families still losing their homes because of the bedroom tax, at a time when pensioners and families have had to pay more VAT, I think they have got the wrong priorities and that’s why ours is a plan to help everybody.

DM: The wrong priority but what about the existing threshold itself, £325,000, has Labour got any plans to lower that?

YVETTE COOPER: Well we’ve set out our plans, every one of our plans as we’ve discussed earlier has been costed and we’re saying how we can pay for it.  You just get a whole long list of things from the Tories.  We have said we would take action around the top pension tax relief for the highest earners but we would put that money into helping, into cutting tuition fees and having grants for students so that we can help the next generation get on.  I think that’s the right priority.

DM: Shadow Home Secretary, thank you very much indeed, Yvette Cooper there.