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DERMOT MURNAGHAN:     We’ll start by taking a look through the top stories in today’s newspapers.  I’m joined by the General Secretary of the TUC, Frances O’Grady, the Labour MP Stephen Kinnock and the Conservative MP and Vote Leave campaigner, James Cleverly.   On the referendum,  Stephen, we know what side you’re on, this is lesson’s learned from general elections isn’t it, you keep it simple, you get a core message and you hammer it home.

STEPHEN KINNOCK:  I think what we’re seeing is that the Leave campaign is losing or has lost the argument on the economy and they are trying to move it on now to immigration and they are going down the dog whistle channel which I think is deeply regrettable, very divisive.  On the Turkey point, Turkey have only closed one of 35 chapters for accession to the EU, the estimate is on that rate they would join the EU by the year 3000, so I think we’re talking here about …

DM: But what about high street bosses saying prices to soar if we quit, they don’t know that, that’s not a certainty, that’s a prediction.

STEPHEN KINNOCK: The only thing that’s certain about Brexit is uncertainty and that fundamentally is the argument that we need to continue to make, it’s a risk that’s not worth taking, it’s a leap into the unknown.  We do know that we are seeing now the beginnings of a run on the pound, sterling has dropped significantly in the last few months and that’s just on the risk of Brexit, imagine if it actually happened so we will see a drop in the pound and a drop in the pound automatically leads to an increase in prices.

DM: Stephen bring us this story, has it got an EU dimension?  Well of course it has, what’s going on in Austria where it seems the far right could be storming to power.

STEPHEN KINNOCK: Yes, this is a story about the rise of Norbert Hoffer who is looking like a fairly strong candidate to take over the Presidency of Austria and I think it’s a worrying sign of what’s happening across Europe and indeed what we are seeing in the United States, is a drift towards this narrative.  It is anti-EU if you like, anti-US is what Mr Hoffer is peddling and blaming and using scare tactics and fear tactics, tapping into this idea that it is all somebody else’s fault.  I think it does actually connect directly to our Brexit referendum because we know that a Brexit would play right into the hands of the likes of the populist far right and also into the likes of people like Mr Putin so it’s all connected.  

DM: Stephen, the argument goes that if we remain within the EU then the EU negotiate all these deals with America and others and it has more heft but of course it takes an awful lot more time because you’ve got to accommodate all these views, if Britain leaves surely it is more fleet of foot to negotiate these deals?

STEPHEN KINNOCK: I think what’s most important is getting a good deal and there is no doubt that if you are negotiating as a block of 500 million consumers you are going to have more leverage than if you are 60 million.

DM: Ah, so you accept the argument?

STEPHEN KINNOCK: No, what I am saying is that you have got to stay in the EU to negotiate as a block because that’s what gives you the heft and the leverage.

DM: But look at the time it takes.

STEPHEN KINNOCK: Well for me what matters is the result and you are going to get a better deal, it’s just pure basic …

DM: So by the year 3000 then when Turkey joins the EU!

STEPHEN KINNOCK: I also think we’ve had absolutely nothing from the Leave side as to what it would actually look like, are we going with a Norway model, are we going with an Albanian model, we’ve had just about every model possible from Michael Gove and Boris Johnson.  If we are talking about relative degrees of certainty, what’s more certain, a 43 year relationship based on the rules that we understand and know or a massive leap into the unknown?

DM: Stephen, I think we’ve found the first Brexit or Remain free story, it’s a worrying one though, this backlog that means nurses, carers and teachers can’t work, this is about background checks isn’t it?

STEPHEN KINNOCK: Yes, so this is about background checks on people who want to work with children, it’s called the Disclosure and Barring Service and it seems that there is a very serious backlog in terms of the police checks that need to be done.  I completely understand the need for having these checks but it is actually stifling people’s ability to set up their own businesses and to perform really important services in our communities looking after kids and so I suppose this just stood out to me as somewhere where somebody needs to get a grip, to get this moving.  

DM: We are out of time, thank you all very much for taking us through plenty of the stories in the papers there.