ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY, SKY NEWS

SOPHY RIDGE: We’re joined by the Scottish First Minister and leader of the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon, thank you very much for being with us today in Glasgow. Now it feels like we should start off with the horrific terror attack that we saw in Manchester, 22 people dead including a young Scottish schoolgirl. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn was right to link it to UK foreign policy in places like Libya and Iraq?

NICOLA STURGEON: Well firstly our thoughts remain with the victims of the Manchester attack, it was absolutely horrific and atrocious and after the dreadful week we’ve had it’s actually lovely to be sitting here with the sound of children playing behind us. Let me say two things about the Jeremy Corbyn speech: firstly, nobody and I don’t believe that Jeremy Corbyn was saying that there is anybody other than the terrorists to blame for acts of terrorism. Terrorists will always look for reasons to justify their actions but there is no justification, there is no excuse, there is nobody else to blame, the person responsible for the attack in Manchester was the man who blew himself and unfortunately others up on Monday night. The second point I would make is that we must be free, particularly in a general election campaign, to have honest debates about foreign policy and to have honest debates about security and how we keep the population of the country safe and I think we should be able to do that without anybody suggesting that anybody who criticises UK foreign policy – and I’ve got many criticisms of UK foreign policy – is any way, shape or form trying to justify the horrific and dreadful actions of terrorists.

SR: So with that in mind then, do you agree that there are links which what has happened in the past with UK foreign policy and terrorist attacks that we’re seeing now?

NICOLA STURGEON: Let me repeat, it’s not an excuse, it’s not a justification but I remember when the former head of MI5 herself said that the war in Iraq had led to greater radicalisation in the UK and had raised different issues, different threats and different issues in terms of keeping the country safe. So I think in any healthy democracy – and remember the terrorists are trying to undermine our democracy – we’ve got to protect our ability in a health democracy to have these debates. I’ve been a long critic of the war in Iraq, I don't think it helped the situation in Iraq and it had implications at home. I’ve been a critic of the air campaign in Syria, not because I question the motivations of people wanting to find a solution in Syria but I question the efficacy of a campaign from the air. We must be able to have those debates.

SR: So do you agree with Jeremy Corbyn that it has made us less safe and has made terrorist attacks more likely?

NICOLA STURGEON: Well I think there are issues about foreign policy and the implications for radicalisation here but where I would disagree with anybody who – and I am not here to advocate for Jeremy Corbyn but where I think it is probably slightly unfair is to say that he was somehow saying that that meant … I mean I heard Theresa May saying that what Jeremy Corbyn was saying was that we only had ourselves to blame for what happened in Manchester. I don't think that’s what he was saying, I don't think that’s what any right thinking person would say but we must have the ability to have honest debates about foreign policy and security here and that would include the reductions to police cover that we’ve seen, not here in Scotland but in England. If we want to keep the population safe, which we all do, then we must be able to debate the …

SR: But there have been reductions in police in Scotland as well haven’t there?

NICOLA STURGEON: No.

SR: The force is apparently facing a funding black hole of £188 million by 2021.

NICOLA STURGEON: Our police face pressures, our police face funding pressures as public services do but my government came to office in 2007 under Alex Salmond at the time, we made a commitment to maintain police officer numbers at a thousand above the level that we inherited and we have kept that pledge. You have seen a reduction of 20,000 officers in England, officer numbers in Scotland have not declined. We have also invested in making sure that there are sufficient trained armed officers so that’s why this week a Chief Constable was able to provide the level of cover he thought appropriate without calling on assistance from the military. Now none of that is in any way to try to politicise the events of this week, nobody should try to do that. Look, the fundamental point I am making here is that if we are to tackle terrorism, keep the population safe, then in a healthy democracy, particularly in an election campaign, none of these issues can be off-limits. I think it would suit the Tories for some of these issues to be off-limits but that wouldn’t serve any of the people that we have an obligation to be honest with during this campaign.

SR: Just one more thing I was interested to get your thoughts on before we move on to other things other than Manchester but do you think that misogyny was partly responsible for this attack because it did seem to be targeted towards young girls going to a pop concert where the singer is perhaps known for her provocative outfits?

NICOLA STURGEON: Yes, if you look at Ariana Grande’s fan base then you find it is mainly young girls, my 11 year old niece is a big fan of Ariana Grande but also gay men, therefore I think the attack on that concert was a fairly fundamental attack on the values of a liberal society that many of us hold so dear. That horrifies me, it horrifies all of us, any terrorist attack is horrific beyond words but one that is targeted on children and young people just goes even beyond what has been the case in the past but it makes it all the more important that we don’t allow the terrorists to prevail so that’s why it is so lovely to hear the sound of children from behind us here today as I said earlier on. Childhood should be a time of happiness and joy, there will be many children across the UK right now worried about going to concerts and we must work really hard to ensure that the things that are so special about childhood are not allowed to be harmed by what happened in Manchester this week.

SR: Let’s talk about the campaign shall we because one of the most difficult moments for you happened this week when a nurse took you to task for having to rely on food parcels because of the pay freeze imposed by your government and she is not alone is she? Do you know how many food parcels were delivered to Scotland last year?

NICOLA STURGEON: Food bank usage not just by people working in the public sector but generally is far too high. The pay freeze, and I am going to come onto that directly because it is an issue that is very uppermost in my mind just now, it is a UK wide pay policy. In Scotland we have taken action that hasn’t been taken elsewhere in the UK to protect low pay workers so we have given extra increases to low pay workers unlike the situation is elsewhere in the UK. We have also protected in the public sector what’s called progression, where people move through the pay scales automatically, that hasn’t always happened …

SR: But you do have some responsibility as well don’t you?

NICOLA STURGEON: I’m coming on to that but I think it’s important to explain the differences and the third difference is we have had a policy of no compulsory redundancies in the NHS and the wider public service which hasn’t happened in England so a newly qualified nurse in Scotland is paid more than his or her counterpart in the rest of the UK so that’s the context. Coming on to my responsibility as First Minister which is to make sure that just as we’ve had that pay policy to try to protect jobs at a time public spending cuts, we recognise the changing economic situation so we’re going into a period now where high inflation is becoming a fact of life so I said it on that programme last weekend and we publish our manifesto on Tuesday and we’ll have more to say on this. I think in a time of higher inflation, pay caps like that become increasingly unsustainable so I think we will move into a period, certainly in Scotland, where we have to balance affordability with the real cost of living that public service workers are facing.

SR: You didn’t quite answer what I said directly which is the food packages. The Trussell Trust says that it provided more than 140,000 packages to people in crisis in Scotland last year, I mean I know that you want to say that this is a UK wide issue but you do have to take responsibility as well don’t you? You have been in government a long time.

NICOLA STURGEON: Look, I’m First Minister and I take responsibility for anything that happens in Scotland and I recognise that but let me say again, food bank usage is not something that is unique to Scotland, we’re seeing an increase in food bank usage across the UK. If you speak to the Trussell Trust, if you speak to many people working in this field, what they will tell you is one of the key drivers, the most significant driver of the increase in people going to food banks are welfare changes, the cuts that we’ve seen to working age benefits, the benefit freeze that’s in place. The SNP government, my government, spends £100 million a year right now mitigating Tory welfare changes, nobody in Scotland because of the action we’re taking is having to pay the bedroom tax for example. So we are working really hard to protect this but if we want to tackle this, we’ve got to tackle it at source and that’s why we’re publishing in our manifesto an alternative to Tory austerity, it’s why we say in our manifesto that we think that things like the benefits freeze can’t go on. The Resolution Foundation is saying that we are going to see greater inequality over the next number of years, since the days of Margaret Thatcher, the incomes of the lowest paid in our society will decline so we have got to tackle these problems at source and the source is Tory austerity and the assault on the poorest in our society.

SR: You see you rail against Conservative austerity, you’ve got an article in a newspaper saying you have got ten days to stop the cruel Conservative austerity but actually if you look at the SNP’s record, funding for councils in Scotland is down 11% since 2010 and you could raise taxes couldn’t you but you’ve decided not to necessarily do that, why don’t you?

NICOLA STURGEON: We’ve not raised the basic rate of income tax because again, it goes back to this point about the pay cap. At a time of rising inflation that’s hitting low and middle income earners but we have also taken the decision, unlike the Tories in the rest of the UK, not to give a tax rise to higher rate tax payers so we are making responsible decisions about tax. Funding for local services in this financial year as a result of the SNP budget is actually increasing by several hundred million pounds, we’re putting £120 million into the hands of head teachers to help tackle attainment in schools. So I take responsibility for all of the policies of my government, that we are doing what we can to mitigate Tory austerity but the way to end Tory austerity is to do it at source. It’s interesting, if you look at the Labour UK manifesto all of the policies that Jeremy Corbyn is putting forward from scrapping tuition fees to scrapping hospital car parking charges to climate change, these are all policies already implemented in Scotland, Scotland is leading the way in …

SR: It’s interesting you say that about Jeremy Corbyn and having some similar policies to you, would you prefer to see him as UK Prime Minister than Theresa May?

NICOLA STURGEON: I want to see a strong voice for Scotland in the House of Commons so my job is …

SR: That’s not the question that I asked you directly, who would you prefer to see: Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May? It’s not going to be you is it, no matter how well you do.

NICOLA STURGEON: I don’t want to see Tory governments and Tory Prime Ministers that do real damage to Scotland. I think one of the things Labour has got to answer for in this election is that they have put forward a leader who lacks credibility in terms of people’s perception of his ability to be Prime Minister so all of that means is that if you want Scotland to have the strongest voice then vote SNP to make sure we get that. Tory MPs will be rubber stamped with what Theresa May wants to do, whatever that is, from an extreme Brexit through to further austerity and the risk in Scotland of voting Labour is that you let the Tories in instead so if you want Scotland’s interests to be protected and the strongest possible voice for Scotland and the big challenges we face over the next few years, the only way to get that in Scotland is to vote SNP.

SR: Okay, Nicola Sturgeon, thank you very much for being with us.