ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY, SKY NEWS

SOPHY RIDGE: The Liberal Democrats were the only opposition party who managed to sound genuine when welcoming this election and they are aiming for a revival, fuelled by hopes of softening Brexit.  I am joined now in the studio by Sir Vince Cable who is standing in his former constituency of Twickenham, hello Sir Vince and thank you for coming on the programme today.  Now it seems as if the Lib Dems strategy is the kind of 48%, mopping up the votes of those dissatisfied and disappointed Remainers with the promise of a second referendum on the deal.  Let’s just talk about that because in reality the only thing you can offer people is a choice between what Theresa May negotiates and the prospect of crashing out of the EU if they do at all isn’t it?

VINCE CABLE: No, I think it’s more than that, it isn’t just the 48%, there is an awful lot of people who voted to leave who would be very, very concerned if we had an extreme version of Brexit, which is what Theresa May seems to be planning – leaving the single market, leaving the customs union, breaking off our research connections with Europe – and I think what the Liberal Democrats are speaking to is everybody who is concerned about the potential damage that could be done by this so-called hard Brexit and we want to be an effective force in parliament arguing against it.

SR: How about that specific thought of a second referendum on the deal because if you think about it, if we are going to leave the EU in two years, then the referendum is just going to be on Theresa May’s deal or no deal at all unless the EU member states agree to an extension, which is really very unlikely isn’t it?

VINCE CABLE: Well we don’t know what the world will be like in two years’ time but as you rightly say, we could finish up with a very bad deal or we could finish up with no deal at all, which means crashing out with potentially catastrophic economic consequences and the Lib Dems say, look, the public have got to have a say on this.  We did vote to leave in the referendum, that’s for sure but not the way in which we were going to leave and the Lib Dems are saying let’s see what happens in these negotiations but if it is bad and if there is no deal then the British public have got to have another say.

SR: What I’m confused about is what happens.  You have another say but we’re out of the EU anyway.

VINCE CABLE: I think the European Union countries will be very pragmatic, they would accept that if the British will be thinking this, they are not going to be obstructive about that.

SR: Okay, Mr Cable, I do wonder if you have been in politics so long now that you personally are so wedded to the idea of a second referendum.  Let’s have a look at something that you said back in September at a fringe event at the Lib Dem conference when you said that the idea of a second referendum is seriously disrespectful and politically utterly counterproductive.  

VINCE CABLE: Yes, I did say that in that context which was immediately after the referendum we’d just had.  We had to accept that the referendum was the way it was and that the public voted the way they did.  We are now talking about something totally different, we are talking about getting to the end of the process of negotiation and having some fall back mechanism so that we can stop something disastrous happening.  Actually referendums are not a good way of deciding in a binary way these very complex issues but nonetheless that was the way that the matter has been resolved and that’s the way the matter has got to be corrected.

SR: Okay.  Your leader, Tim Farron, in an interview today said he rules out doing a coalition with any other party.  Do you think that’s a bit like me ruling out going on a date with George Clooney, the offer is not really on the table is it?

VINCE CABLE: Well it could have been and we are just making it absolutely clear that it’s not something that we want to do or are intending to do.

SR: But that would only happen if the polls are close.

VINCE CABLE: Well you may think so but an awful lot of Conservatives are going round the doors at the moment saying that the Lib Dems are going to work in a coalition with Labour and Labour people are going round saying they’re going to do a coalition with the Tories so we are making it absolutely clear that that’s not on, we’re not doing that.  We want to be an effective opposition to the government.  There is a real danger at the moment of the Conservatives, Theresa May’s Conservatives, winning with a landslide and doing so in a kind of very scary atmosphere, crushing saboteurs, I mean this is making it sound like Turkey and Russia, we don’t want that kind of country and we do need to have a very effective opposition what is potentially a very arrogant government.

SR: Do you think the Lib Dems are realistically capable of forming that opposition?  We need to get real here, you’ve got nine MPs, you are at around 11% in the polls, there’s lots of talk of a Lib Dem fight back but are we getting a bit carried away with it here?

VINCE CABLE: Well I don't think we’re going to win a landslide but we are certainly going to improve on our current position and the question is how much we improve and I think once people see the clarity of our position and the fact that uniquely of the major parties we have been consistent and principled on the issue of Europe and Brexit and we have a good platform of other policies too, I think our support will increase and key, given the way the British voting system works the average share of the vote is not the key factor, it’s whether you can win in your particular constituencies.  We have a solid base of support in many parts of the country including mine.  

SR: You will forgive some of my scepticism here because I do remember in the 2015 General Election being spun a line by the Lib Dems that you were going to do much better than the share of the vote in the polls and look what happened there.

VINCE CABLE: No, it happened and 2015 was a disastrous election but we now have a following wind, we had a headwind in 2015 and it could be very different.

SR: It could be very different.  This week of course your leader Tim Farron was forced to clarify that he doesn’t think that being gay is a sin.  He also wrestled with the laws over abortion as a committed Christian so if you are trying to pitch yourself, trying to win back those votes of the Liberals who, if you like, don’t perhaps feel they have a natural home in Labour or the Conservatives at the moment, is Tim Farron really the man to do it?

VINCE CABLE: Yes, and we are a liberal party in that wider social sense and his voting record is as of a Liberal MP and the problem he has as an individual, and it is true of a lot of the evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics, is that their religious faith has a certain approach to these problems but they are also public figures who have to represent their constituencies which are much more diverse.  I think Tim accepts, and many highly motivated Christians accept, that when they are in public life they have got to reflect the people that they represent and he’s done so and he’s done so in a very liberal way, does nothing to detract from our broader message about being a socially liberal party.

SR: So he is effectively, you might say, out of step with what …

VINCE CABLE: No, he has a personal faith and I respect people who have a personal faith, he’s struggling with his conscience as a lot of Christians and indeed Muslims and others are but when it’s come to the crunch, to the vote, voting for gay marriage, voting on these issues, he has voted consistently in a liberal way along with the rest of our party.

SR: And you believe that is because he wants to put the views of the people he is representing above his own personal views?

VINCE CABLE: Yes and it’s difficult because if you are a true, if you have real faith, it is not an easy thing to do and I think one has to respect people who are grappling with their faith in the way that he is.

SR: We are talking a lot about the election of course as you’d expect but I am also keen to get your thoughts on the economy at the moment as well.  Now you of course were one of the few people who predicted the last financial crash before it happened and I am just wondering what your view is on the current economic prospects of the UK because we have Brexit looming, personal debt levels are still very high, could we be seeing another recession on the cards?

VINCE CABLE: I’m not predicting recession but there are some very deep weaknesses in the UK economy.  We did recover from the depths of the financial crisis, I was part of the government that helped to make that recover but there are some fundamental weaknesses.  We have very low productivity which is why wages are low and we did make a start when I was in the government in promoting apprenticeships and industrial strategy but it’s a long term task. We have a temporary boom taking place at the moment which is largely fired by personal debt and heavy borrowing and that is not sustainable.  The government finances are not in great shape and because Brexit will almost certainly produce an economic slowdown – not necessarily a recession but certainly a slowdown – this will affect government revenue, it will make the managing of the budget even more difficult.  Public services in areas like schooling and health are desperately stretched and we are going to have to provide more funding for that so this is the dilemma that any party in government is now going to face and it’s not easy.

SR: Are politicians grappling with those issues, do you think?

VINCE CABLE: I think we are beginning to see in the early days of the campaign a recognition by the Tories to start with and indeed by other parties, that we are going to have to face higher taxation as well as continuing discipline of the public finance.  What I would like to see actually, and I wanted this to happen in the coalition years, is a very clear distinction between borrowing to cover the overdraft of the government and borrowing for public investment, building up our infrastructure, broadband, railways, housing and the government could be getting on with that, borrowing at very, very low rates of interest in order to build up the country and make it more productive and this Tory government isn’t doing it.

SR: So you mention there that the Tories are starting to grapple with the idea of higher taxation, would you support higher taxation?

VINCE CABLE: Well I think it’s going to have to happen whoever is in government and the question is how you do it and making sure you do it in a fair way.  Where I would start is some of the changes that the Conservatives have brought in since we left the coalition.  I mean why on earth are we cutting Corporation Tax?  It’s well, well below the average of developed countries – I mean I am pro-business, I want to see business investing but all that’s happening is that businesses are pocketing the money and they’re sitting on it, they are not investing in it because of all the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

SR: But don’t we need to make the UK an attractive place post-Brexit?

VINCE CABLE: I want Britain to be an attractive place to invest in but that is unnecessary and it is very, very expensive.

SR: So you support Jeremy Corbyn then in saying Corporation Tax should be looked at?

VINCE CABLE: Certainly on that particular point, I’m not sure I’d go along with all of Jeremy Corbyn’s ideas on tax but on that, yes, definitely.

SR: Before you go, I’m quite interested to know, you have had two years away from politics now, how have you found it?  How have you been filling your time?  Have you taken up gardening, are you watching box sets into the small hours?

VINCE CABLE: Not gardening, no, I’m not great in the garden but I’ve been writing books and I’ve got a novel appearing in August/September, I work in universities including my local university in Twickenham and the London School of Economics.

SR: So busy but what do you do in your down time?

VINCE CABLE: I still go to my weekly dancing lesson, I love that  and do a lot of cycling, walking, doing the gym, weight training, all those thing so I’m very active and hopefully fit.

SR: Weight training, I love that.  You can’t have been enjoying it that much though otherwise you wouldn’t be back for more.  Vince Cable, thank you very much.