Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Rebecca Long Bailey Shadow Business Secretary

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: A quick history lesson to start. Back in 2015 you might remember Ed Miliband unveiling plans that would see workers on boards of companies. That was then adopted and then dropped by one Theresa May, well now the policy is back bigger and, no doubt in the opinion of our next guest, better than ever. Labour Shadow Business Secretary, Rebecca Long Bailey, joins us now, thanks very much for being with us.

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Thanks Sophy.

SR: Now before we get to your plans for having workers on boards of companies, I’m keen to talk to you about another story that is dominating the newspapers today, Brexit, because we’ve had both the Leader and the Deputy Leader effectively saying that if Labour members at party conference back the idea of having a second referendum then they’ll support that. Would you welcome that, would you be happy?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Well our position is that we want to have a general election. Theresa May can’t get the support of Parliament or even her own party to push through whichever deal or no deal as she suggested on Friday but what we have said is that Jeremy was elected to democratise the Labour party and although it is not our position policy-wise, if members decided at this conference that they wanted to have a People’s Vote or a second referendum, of course we’d respect the membership so it is going to be an interesting few days. I think Tuesday is the Brexit debate so we’re watching closely.

SR: So what do you think? Do you want to see a second referendum?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: I have reservations, I would prefer to push the government into a general election for the reasons that I said. I don't think that Theresa May would have got the respect or support of Parliament or her own party or the opposition if she can’t get any deal through and in that situation she is not a credible government, she can’t take things through, she is not stable and we should have a general election.

SR: What are your reservations about then?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: In terms of a People’s Vote, if the government was in power, the current government that we’ve got, they would hold the [pen] on that People’s Vote, they would determine the questions that would be asked in such a People’s Vote, they might be able to skew it in particular directions to secure the result that they wanted and I would question the fairness of that but as I said, ultimately if Theresa May can’t get a deal through Parliament should she really be the Prime Minister?

SR: I guess the issue as well for a People’s Vote is that in your constituency and places like Salford, a lot of people would think this is a bit of a betrayal of what they voted for.

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Well that’s what I mean. We are one of those constituencies that voted Leave by a slight margin but we had lots of mixtures of opinion, it wasn’t a binary choice for a lot of people. There were some firm Remainers and firm Leavers but a lot of people in between and that’s what a second referendum causes concern for me over because I think for people like that who really weren’t sure and still aren’t sure and just want to get the best deal and make sure our economy is set up on the right track, it would be concerning for them and I think depending on how the referendum was set out, it could cause significant issues.

SR: Could you see civil disobedience like Barry Gardiner suggested?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Well I wouldn’t say civil disobedience but I think people would find it quite concerning and I think it needs to be looked at very carefully but as I say, if we’ve got a government in power that can’t secure the support of Parliament on something as fundamental as Brexit, they really shouldn’t be in power, we should have a general election to determine the future of the country.

SR: It is pretty clear then that you would prefer to have a general election rather than a second referendum. I am keen to talk to you about Labour’s Brexit position because it is easy in a way to blame Theresa May, it’s all her fault, she’s the one who’s messing everything up but actually you have a responsibility as well don’t you, as the Labour party, to put forward a credible alternative to try and shape the debate. At the minute you are saying you want to be in a customs union with the EU but Theresa May made it very clear this week that actually the EU is only offering two different options and if you want to be in a customs union then the EU say you have to be in the EEA as well and that you have to accept free movement of people, that is what she explicitly said this week, that we still have to abide by all of the EU rules, uncontrolled immigration from the EU, we wouldn’t be able to do trade deals and she’s right isn’t she? Labour’s position would mean uncontrolled immigration from the EU.

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: No, let’s be honest, Theresa May set out on these negotiations on completely the wrong foot. She has been quite bullish throughout, she hasn’t tried to win friends and influence people. The European Union wants a good deal with the UK because our two economies are dependent upon each other and standing as blatantly as she did on Friday stating that we will pursue a no-deal if you don’t do what we want is not the approach that we should be taking, they need to stop playing political games …

SR: Let’s take the rhetoric out of it because she was clear wasn’t she, and we know it’s true from what the EU has said as well, there will be no cherry picking, that there are two options on the table and at the minute the option that Labour would choose which is the customs union, would mean that the EU would only accept that if you also accept free movement of people.

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Well no, the two options that are on the table are as a result of Theresa May’s negotiating style which as I set out was completely wrong from the outset. What we’ve set out is that we understand that free movement will end as we exit the EU, that’s non-negotiable and we want to have a robust immigration system that puts our economy first but we’re also saying that we want to be part of a customs union and have a deal that secures the same benefits within the single market that we currently have including all of the rights and protections. We would have set out our negotiations on that basis and I suspect we’d be in a very different place with the European Union today.

SR: Now you are announcing as Shadow Business Secretary, plans today to have a third of workers on company boards. Can you just explain what that’s all about, how it would work?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Well I think certainly over the last eight years we’ve seen a culture of short-termism in many of our boardrooms and that’s underlined by stagnant productivity, stagnating wages and we’re not due to return to pre-crash levels until at least 2022 and we think it’s right that workers themselves who have an interest in the long-term direction of particular companies have a stake in that company, that they are heard within the boardroom. They understand what happens on the shop floor, how productivity can be increased, how efficiencies can be made and they should be able to speak quite freely to other members of the board in order to pursue that long-term strategy of a particular company.

SR: You and the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, have been on a bit of a mission haven’t you to woo businesses. Is this really going to go down very well with the businesses and the companies that you need to convince that Labour is going to be a credible government that won’t have a negative effect on the economy?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: The vast majority of businesses respect their workforce and it’s a bit of a misconception to say that they don’t and I suspect that they will want to involve workers more, especially if it means increasing productivity and improving the company’s long-term direction overall. It’s not taking away powers from other directors, it’s merely allowing those workers to have a voice at the boardroom table, to be able to help make those decisions that improve a company overall.

SR: Are you relaxed – and I’m interested in your answer to this one – are you relaxed as someone once said, about people becoming filthy rich as long as they pay their taxes?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Well we don’t have people paying their taxes at the moment and that is one of the common issues that comes up on the doorstep in my constituency. Most people are fed up of doing the right thing, working hard, paying their taxes. Businesses are fed up of doing the right thing, paying their taxes …

SR: But if people do pay their taxes, are you relaxed with how much wealth that they can create?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: Well I think there’s been a problem, certainly in this government’s tenure and across our economy overall over the last 30 years where we have seen wealth accrue in the hands of a small percentage of people and that’s not just to do with taxation, that’s to do with the whole range of economic policies and issues and what we want to do as the Labour party – and we’ll set this out at the conference – this week is to rebalance that economy. So it’s not just about how much people are taxed, but it’s about making sure that people actually have the ability to earn more and businesses have the ability to generate more profit so that they can pay their staff more. It’s about re-equalising the economy.

SR: Nicely side-stepped there. Now one other thing that I was keen to talk to you about was Sky’s campaign to try and make Leader’s Debates happen effectively in election times. We want to see an independent commission set up to try and work out who should be in those debates and how they should happen, is that something that you would support?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: I think it is. I think it’s interesting the point about the independent commission because many of our members would argue that certain outlets would favour one particular party or another so it’s important to ensure that these leadership debates are fair and it is a good opportunity for people across Britain to hear about the policies from particular parties without the spin, without the rhetoric.

SR: And one last question for you: the NEC, the National Executive Committee in Labour, decided that there should be two Deputy Leaders of the Labour party, one of course is Tom Watson, the other they say should be reserved for a woman. Is that something you’d consider running for?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: I’ve not even thought about it.

SR: What’s your quick thought?

REBECCA LONG BAILEY: I can’t decide now, I honestly haven’t thought about it. I’m very, very busy dealing with business, energy and industrial strategy and I like that very much and I’m sure that that’s going to keep me busy for a long time in the future.

SR: Okay, Rebecca Long Bailey, thank you very much.